Episode 41: Healing Chronic illnesses & Finding Freedom with Shiloh Woodard

Conversation

Episode 41 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jessi Michel Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi: Shiloh, I'm so excited to have you on this podcast because it's been a long time coming. I mean, we, you were one of my first. Clients, really? Mm-hmm. Like back in the day, you, I will always remember you just putting trust in me and me being like, well, here we go. You know, and Right.

Shiloh: Oh gosh. It had to been scary for you.

Jessi: It wasn't scary. It was more just like, I think I felt the weight of the journey you had already been on, the amount of practitioners you'd already seen and just so deeply wanting you to see resolution and hope. And I felt at that season in your life, a deep hopelessness in you, if I may speak that over you at that time.

And so I think I just felt, I felt a deep, deep connection and calling to your journey of like holding that torch for you and holding that lighthouse and, and being that, that source of inspiration of like, we are going to get you. Back to you, you know, you'll be you again. And um, although I never promised, cuz I try not to ever promise anything.

I, I held it in my heart and I, I knew, I knew that we were gonna get you somewhere, but it is, I did feel the weight right off the bat of like, yeah, this is like, I felt this is big. You know, like this isn't just, oh Jesse, I have a few symptoms. Like, and so, right. It was more like the, the responsibility of just, no, I was really sick partnering with you on this.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, uh, so I think we've learned so much together. Yeah. Through your healing journey cuz we were partners through it and at least through the season, uh, where we went through it together. And it's been such an honor, honestly, to witness your fortitude, your perseverance, your, your just straight up grit.

Shiloh. Um, thank you. As we're gonna dive into deeply today, moving through challenging healing seasons. Takes a resilience that most people honestly don't have. And I ironically see mostly Insensitives, which is so counter to what our culture thinks of when they think of sensitives, but we actually have this crazy deep resilience to us, um, because we've kind of had to in order to just like move through this life seriously.

Um, so I'm, I'm so excited to have you on here to share your story and to just introduce this community to you. So, Give our, our listeners a little like, snapshot of just who you are in general, what you Oh, for living now, which is so fun. And then we'll just kind of start diving into the, uh, the beautiful story of the last couple of years.

Shiloh: Sure. Did you want like my age or what do you want?

I, um, here's my

Jessi: address, here's my right height, my type,

Shiloh: which I still dunno. So if you know, please let me know, guys. Um, thank, oh my gosh. I, um, am Shiloh. Hi. Nice to meet you all. Um, I am now currently an audiobook, narrator, specialing, uh, specializing specifically in romance audiobooks. I, I hope to expand into more genres as I come into this, but this is a brand new career for me where I get to combine two loves that I never thought I'd get to combine again, which are acting and well reading is always something I could do, but.

Wait, not always true. We'll get to that Anyway. Um, so I'm an audiobook narrator, that's why you're in my booth. And, I have so many other things that go to me to ask me who I am is, is monumental, but that's a nice sheen LinkedIn version. I love it.

Jessi: I love it. Mm-hmm. So, Shiloh, give us a little story about, you know, when did you first find out that you were sensitive and how did that register for you?

That's

Shiloh: a really fascinating question because it's two parts. I mean, I'm sure you get this with a lot of sensitives. We don't just answer the question normally because the question is so many other things. Mm-hmm. Um, when did I realize I was sensitive? Well, one, I didn't know sensitive was a thing. Mm-hmm.

Until I met you. Um, and you helped me label what I've always known about myself. Mm-hmm. Um, so you stopped me a couple years ago. Um, I would say in the concept of knowing that I was sensitive without the label mm-hmm. Um, that showed up. I would say, I would describe it as a feeling of being other, um, of being different than the other kids, different than those around me.

And that probably showed up

earliest memories. Um, being able to sense spirits, being able to see colors that aren't there, see, hear things. Um, love people in a way that others couldn't. Mm-hmm. Um, lead others in a way that others weren't. And that, and being called weird. Yeah, I mean, like honestly, if I had the proverbial nickel for every time I was called weird in my life, I would be so rich.

Um, and it's never like the cool, weird, yeah, it's, it's always the puppy dog. Weird. Like she's weird, but she's ours. Mm-hmm. Like, so it's, um, almost more insulting cuz there's cool, weird, um, where you can just be like Luna Lovegood in Harry Potter. Mm-hmm. Um, but also Luna Lovegood was only accepted by people because she hung around them.

So I, I kind of identify a lot with her and her strangeness, which was. It's a fascinating character. Unsung heroes of Harry Potter people. I love it. Podcast.

Jessi: That's amazing. I totally understand that. I think I oddball was kind of like the word that came to my mind a lot of, yeah. Just like, or people just like, you're just different.

Like, they almost couldn't put their finger on it. Like, yeah, I don't know what to do with you.

Shiloh: Right. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I would be called a lot of things, but I found that adults embraced me more mm-hmm. As a child than kids did.

Jessi: That's so common. Yeah. Right.

Shiloh: Because we understand adults. Mm-hmm. We can talk with adults as, as little kids in general, I'm assuming.

Mm-hmm. Um, that's the case. And I was always sick, but like I, I told you this, I didn't realize I was always sick until I started working with you and we started going through my history and I'm like, oh, I, I'm probably sick. Oh, that's always been

Jessi: my story, but I, I feel like I'm

Shiloh: a kind of a weird, sensitive, weird, and there's that word again.

We're embracing it today, people. I love it. Yeah. It's gonna be our recla it reclaim it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, is that, um, I am extroverted. Mm-hmm. Um, I, it's such a weird thing because I don't actually charge with people. I don't recharge. So I really am an introvert, but I adore people. I wanna be in all the parties.

I wanna do all the things with people I wanna play, like sign me up, coach put me in. So I didn't realize I was only sick. I thought that was normal because I still did all the sports, all the arts, all the things at school, got all the A's, did all the stuff. Um, which now I realize she needed a nap and to say no.

Less. Less is more. Less is more. Mm-hmm. But as a little kid in the brand new wide world, this was the world I wanted. So that is very much my personality. If anyone follows the agram, I'm a seven. Mm-hmm. Which is, odd to have as sensitive sensitives aren't normally gregarious, outgoing sevens. So please don't look at me and go, oh, I should be like her.

Jessi: I talk about this a lot. Every natural sensitive is different because I think, and there is a lot of use of this, of describing sensitivity as a personality trait. I don't really see it that way. I see it as an inborn trait. Um, which I mean, again, you could like wrap circles around how you define personality, but it's not something I feel like that we.

Put on, right? Like you put on a personality, it's who you are. And so introvert and extrovert is something that is also a trait. And I think what gets confusing is that the love of people, the love of connection, the love of relationships is separate from both of those things. Actually very well put. So a natural sensitive can be introverted or extroverted.

Uh, an introvert can be natural sensitive or not. Um, like those things are separate. Introversion, extroversion are separate from natural sensitivity. And then separate from that is even the love of people, you know? And, um, it's so funny, I've been talking a lot about this, of just this. We all have different levels of capacity and need for connection, and some of us are really wired to be connected.

Jessi: Uh, but not all of us are filled up by being around people. And that's at least how I define introvert and extroverts. So technically what I'm hearing you say is you are an introvert. You just love people. You love people, you love connection.

Mm-hmm. But your, your nervous system, your body can only handle so much before it's like, we need a, we need a break. Mm-hmm. And then we'll be back full force, you know? Right. Yes. That's, and we can't

Shiloh: wait. We can't wait, you know, right.

Jessi: Back and take a nap. Right. So, and that's, that's I think one of the biggest myths about sensitives is that we're people haters that we're, uh, that we are like these reclusive live in the mountain by ourselves, kind of people.

Now, I am more that way personally. Like I love people and I do have my. My extroverted moments, but, or my people loving moments. But I need so much time that I actually can't do that. Whereas you, I feel like you do actually fill up pretty quickly and you're able to bounce back and that connection is so strong.

Remind me, I should pull it up right now. Remind me what your profile is in human design. Shiloh, I have it on my phone, of course. I'm a

Shiloh: generator. Yeah. Profile generator.

Jessi: Do you remember what your profile numbers are?

Shiloh: The numbers are, oh God, I have it on my phone. Let me look. Um, I will say, I wanted to say something too about filling up.

Yeah. I could not fill up quickly unless I was healthy. Mm-hmm. Healthy. Let me, let me res restate that. Yeah. Have five, one. Yes. I'm trying, I'm still, I'm still learning these. Um, yeah. Yep. I'm a five one. The challenge solver. Mm-hmm. Um, But I, I could not fill up as quickly and you've known that, you've seen me through my journeys.

Um, a great, oh, one of my lights died. Oh. It's gonna get real dark and personal here. Fast. I love it. Um, welcome to the cave. Uh, so I would not have been able to recharge quickly. Mm-hmm. Um, relatively out. So without being on this healing journey without being relatively healthy. Yeah. Um, it's just, it's just a part of that.

But yeah, I'm a five one to answer your question. I love that. Yeah.

Jessi: I, it's funny cuz I would've, I, for some reason I was like, is she a four? I didn't think she had four in her profile, but, um, five ones, you know, you're, you're kind of the hero. You're tempted to fix everything because you technically can.

Shiloh: No, I can.

And could you please tell everyone that? Thank you. Just listen to me, people. I got you. Okay. No,

Jessi: that's one of the hardest, hardest profiles as a sensitive, because you literally can fix everything and you can be the hero in just about every situation. Um, but you're not here to do that for everyone. No.

You're here to first and foremost do it for you, and then as your capacity grows, you can extend it to others, which is I know, a big lesson we've learned together. Yeah.

Shiloh: From hard, you know, you've been really helpful with that. And Oh, there goes the other one. This is as tough as it gets people. Sorry. Just think of it as intimate.

You've taught me a lot in that. Where to give the energy, but what, more than what teaching, you've given me permission to say no. Mm-hmm. Um, so as a seven, as a generator, as a five, one saying no is very difficult. Mm-hmm. Um, being sick forced me. So back up.

I was sick with Lyme disease for 13 years. Mm-hmm. Um, active, terrible. Tried to kill me a couple times. Lyme disease. Um, stole my thirties, y'all. Um, and before that I had chronic Epstein bar, chronic fatigue syndrome for 15, 15 years. Mm-hmm. 17 years. And then before that I was just kind of sick all the time as a kid.

Um, so I haven't ever really experienced glowing health for any length of time until recently. Hmm. Therefore, having to say no. Was something I had to learn the hard way. Mm-hmm. Um, giving that permission to accept that lesson is something you did, you gave me that permission to accept the lesson that God was trying to like beat into my hood.

Take a nap for gosh sakes. Mm. That's, that's really,

Jessi: that's the hardest one for us is, is sensitives, is the acceptance of our 3D limitation. You know, you and I have had many, many deep conversations about this and you even more so this, we have this ethereal quality to us being in the spiritual world.

Being in the 45 D beyond realms is very easy for us. Mm-hmm. What's challenging for us is to step into this bag of skin and bones and to feel. Grounded in who we are in this dimension, in this lifetime. Uh, because it doesn't feel natural to us. It feels odd. We feel like we're aliens, you know, like what's going on.

Yeah. And so whether it's conscious or subconscious, and I think for you, it's been a very conscious thing of like, I just feel, I don't, this isn't me. Like what is happening here isn't me. And especially when, and that is ultimately what illness is, right? Is is it disconnection from the body. Mm-hmm. And saying, this body isn't me.

And so your journey has been so beautiful to observe as you've come back into the body, which was hard at first. Really hard. Yeah. It was very hard. And then eventually I saw you make that connection and suddenly your body was your friend, your body was your support system. Your body was something that you, I I heard it in your voice, this respect and this almost a protective, um, Attitude that came forward too, which was so beautiful to see.

And I know that that was a long journey cuz as you just shared, and we can dive into that more of like Sure. How, how much you had to work through and how many different people you had involved in. And when you're sick for that long, there's a way that culture and the way that your family and your friends will treat you and you start to, since that's mirrored back to you, you start to accept it, right?

Of this is who I am. Sure. Yeah. And um, and that's where it's like all I have to offer is to like give whatever I can and then, so there's no permission to say no, right? Mm-hmm. It just grows into this whole persona of like, I have to give what I can cuz I. I'm so limited, you know?

Shiloh: Taking back agency. Oh

Jessi: yeah. That's a beautiful way to say it. So share a little bit more with us about Yeah. That journey. What was it like? Um, I know this may be a little painful to go back to, but, uh, what was it like as a kid growing up? Feeling, feeling sick, feeling disconnected from your body?

Well,

Shiloh: I didn't realize that I was sick all the time. I just figured that was what people were. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's totally normal to have strep throat at least once a year. Um, totally normal to wake up and just not feel good. Mm-hmm. Um, and cuz it didn't stop me from living a full life. Mm-hmm. Um, because I was still in sports, I was still running around, I was still doing the things.

Um, I just happened to be very sick a couple times a year. And it might have been more than that, I don't remember, but I have a personality that's like sunshine and, and roses and mm-hmm. Rainbows and happy days. Um, naturally. So I tend to in, unfortunately, and this is an unfortunate thing, gloss over painful things.

Mm-hmm. Um, and that's something you and I worked on, I worked on separately with a therapist as well mm-hmm. Is to feel the painful things, acknowledge that they're there and not feel like you have to be condemned because you're in pain. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, we often say judge a lot and I think we actually misuse that word a lot, um, because judging is not inherently bad.

Condemning is bad if you don't know the whole story. Um, so because we, we judge on a very surface level all the time, so judging that I have pain, meaning I'm determining. If I have pain, um, and then acknowledging that there's pain there and then not condemning myself for it or trying to shift the pain.

Um, for those of us that are happy-go-lucky people all the freaking time, inherently, um, it's very hard to not shift uncomfortable feelings and to try to, um, pull out some kind of alchemy and to change them into a rainbow. And the truth is, is that, that that diminishes the need of the pain. Do you know what I mean?

Absolutely. We're here to learn that lesson and if we won't learn that lesson unless we feel it. Yeah. And that's something I've been sharing with a friend recently too, cuz they have a beautiful heart and they just want to heal people and they can. Um, here's the problem with that though. If you don't allow a person to have their struggles, you, you are robbing from them, you are stealing the joy and the greatness that they can become.

Mm-hmm. That they are. If you instead stand beside guide support, then you can help them through the difficult trauma and, and problems that they have. I don't know what we were talking about. I just went off on a tangent. No,

Jessi: very well said. You just hit on a point that I think is, is so, so important. Um, and that goes back to the lesson we were talking about earlier of this desire to rescue right.

To be the hero. And, and so, you know, that can translate as never saying no. Mm-hmm. And as sensitives, because we, and especially you, since you're clairvoyant and able to really tune into people, uh, you can feel things that other people don't, don't even know exists inside of them. Yeah. And so there is such this huge draw in you to help them along their journey, their healing journey.

Um, and it sounds like you're friends the same way, but if that individual isn't able to learn the lesson themselves, it's never gonna register and it's Yeah, you're right. You're robbing them of the lessons of, cuz it's the process that causes the learning. Right. Not necessarily the end result. So yeah,

Shiloh: you don't wanna be Jurassic Park.

You want them to, to be natural history, not Jurassic Park. Don't skip the steps. I love it. Just saying, keeping a rail over here. Oh, I like that analogy. That's so good. Don't be Jurassic Park people.

Jessi: Ah, okay. So let me bring us back. Cause you and I together are rabbit trails galore, right? So, well the energy

Shiloh: just expands.

I know. And our like spirit selves are like, cool, we're gonna go dance over here. Over here. Al selves are like, dude, come back ladies, remember you love our bodies. Oh my gosh.

Jessi: Yeah. So I mean, so you shared with us that your childhood, it was hard, but you didn't register it that way, which is very normal.

Honestly, I've heard. Same for me. I've heard this same for you. So many sensitive because it's also a survival mechanism and Sure. Uh, if we come across as happy, nice girls. Then there's more acceptance, there's less rejection because we already have a tendency to be quote unquote weird oddballs, whatever.

So we do everything in our power consciously, but mostly subconsciously to be accepted. Right? Mm-hmm. And that of course, comes out in different ways based off of Yeah, the environment for sure. We grew up in and all of that. So it sounds like that was totally your story. At what point did you hit a physical level?

Cuz I, this happens to all sensitives. We hit a point where the body's like, I can't do this anymore. And it gives us a signal. It gives us a message that is so loud that we can no longer progress at the same momentum that we had before. And we have to stop. Did you receive a, a disease label? Was there a moment?

I'm saying that

Shiloh: that was always happening. Um, hence why I was always getting sick. Um, but the first time, which I did not heed cuz I was 12, 11, 12. I was in sixth grade, I caught, um, Epstein Bar. Mm. And that's the granddaddy of Mono. And I was out of school days for 23 days. And so, which I think equates to two full months.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's really, it was intense. Um, I watched a lot of Beauty and the Beast, you guys, just everyone, it's a great one. And an edited version. Edited version of working girls. So, cause the non edited version not okay for little kids, but edited, it's fine. I love it. So I, I did that and I read a lot and, um, I got through sixth grade and just acknowledged that there was gonna be times throughout my teen years where I needed a few days off of school.

Mm. And I'm so lucky I have parents that truly understand me. And if they don't understand the complexity of who I am, because who, who really sees everything, um, they are willing to accept what I've discovered along my journey mm-hmm. And adapt as they see fit. So I've really had good support throughout my, my life in regards to illnesses.

My parents never disbelieved me. Um, so I was never forced to go to school when I, I just couldn't get out of bed. Um, they fully were like, okay, no, you're sick. So I never felt that, condemnation from them in regards to my illness. Um, but I a hundred percent have felt that from doctors.

Yeah. Um, especially in the eighties and nineties where chronic fatigue syndrome was controversial. Um, it's no longer that way, but it was during that time and people, some doctors were like, it's not real. It's in your head. I'm like, this is not the 18 hundreds. I'm not having vapors. Like, and vapors were probably some chronic illness that was not diagnosed.

Shiloh: But it was hard. And so I still sometimes have that kind of fear with doctors that they're going to say, I'm fine when I'm, I know I'm not fine. Mm-hmm. Um, thankfully I've found some great healthcare practitioners to surround myself with and who believe me. Mm-hmm. And I, I, the key to that is being comfortable enough to tell telehealth care practitioner, thank you.

This is, this is the end of our journey together. Mm-hmm. I appreciate all you've done for me, but I can't do this and being your own advocate. Um, and I would not have known to do that if my mother wasn't such a strong advocate for my health and. The health of her, her parents as they were passing and learning what it means to truly say, no, give me this test.

Mm-hmm. No, I'm not taking that medicine. Let's find another solution. Because doctors are brilliant people who have done a wonderful job learning something, but they only know so much in this very, very big field. Mm-hmm. And they can only offer so much of their wisdom. Mm-hmm. So I'm a big proponent of having at least three different healthcare practitioners to at least three to round out and balance out the perspective.

And if you can't do three, then do at least two, get an allopathic and a naturopathic holistic, traditional, what we're gonna call traditional medicine, but then also the Americanized standard. Mm-hmm. Healthcare, because I think it's important to live in both worlds. Yeah. For me personally, that's not everyone's journey.

And if anything, I've learned through this journey, Jessie, and you know this is that every body is different. Yes. Like my diet is not gonna be your diet, it's not gonna be her diet. Mm-hmm. My medication and my supplement's not yours. There's some similarities. Sure. But just cuz we're human after that, forget it.

So, and I think that process of learning to trust yourself is really actually what healing is about. Mm. Mm-hmm. I'm just talking a lot. I love that. So, I love other questions.

Jessi: Yeah. So, uh, at what point did you start to realize like, okay, this is really serious. This is something I have to kind of pull back on my life on even more.

Um, like where you mentioned like your thirties really kind of got stolen from you. What did that look like? Well, I

Shiloh: would say it actually started at 20. Mm-hmm. Um, truly, truly 20. Um, so. I was in school up in Seattle. I was working on a theology and theater degree. Um, I was there on a theater scholarship, acting people.

It's my life. Um, and I got black mold poisoning and very, very sick. And I thought, well, maybe it's the chronic fatigue acting up. We didn't know what I had, but there was a huge spot of black mold in my apartment at the time up in Seattle. And I had to quit school. My dad had to drive up. I was 20, um, before he drove up and took me.

I had to get through that quarter and I had a friend literally prop me up in class and she would help take notes for me and we would just get through. I just got through that quarter and it took about a year and a half, um, for me to get back on my feet, to finish my degree, to move forward. But I never really truly healed from that process.

Yeah. Um, because I didn't understand all the things that I shouldn't have been doing for my body. Um, but I did know that working was hard. I could only do part-time work, um, and ultimately ended up as a massage therapist, which is fantastic cuz I get to help heal people. But did I understand how to block energy very well?

No. So touching that many people in a day, all that energy, all of their stuff. And then the natural desire to take the pain and literally taking the pain away. Some of you sensitives will understand what that's, that's like Yep. Is not healthy. Mm-hmm. Um, so in that state of a compromised energetic body, a compromised immune system, I then caught Lyme disease at 29.

Um, And I caught it in Southern California. And yes, it can happen. Don't believe what mainstream medicine tells you. Um, and I didn't know what Lyme disease was. I just knew I couldn't work. Mm-hmm. I was very tired. My, my body hurt, my face swelled up on one side and fell. I had phantom dental pain. Walking was ridiculously hard.

I started stuttering. I couldn't find words. I started seeing things hallucinating, hearing things, pain when there was the slightest breeze. Um, I mean, body shaking pain. And, uh, they finally found it. I, I tested positive for Lyme and the normal western medicine doctor was like, cool, awesome. We're gonna put you on IV antibiotics every day for a month.

Um, did not prescribe. Probiotics did not prescribe, anything for gut health. And basically went in with Rocephin, which is like, it's like going in with a lot of artillery and just like oblating a, a country town. Yeah. With no support and then, then, you know, walking out and going, okay, well rebuild yourself, but they obliterated the lumber yards, everything.

There was nothing to rebuild. Um, and after the month she's like, okay, well everything else you're experiencing is post line syndrome and I can't help you. I'm like, but I'm getting worse. Like, this isn't just static. This is getting significantly worse and I got much worse. Um, thankfully an uncle of mine was like, Hey, you need to check this out, this kind of world.

Go look for a Lyme literate doctor. They don't generally accept insurance because there's a. So political people. So political. Mm-hmm. Great documentaries out there. One is called Under Our Skin. I recommend you watching it. Mm-hmm. But I found a Lyme letter doctor and I'm so thankful for her. Um, she is an integrative medicine practitioner, so she used to work in the ER but wanted to incorporate a lot of holistic health into her practice.

And it was great. It really, really helped. I did, I did come close to death a couple times. Um, but that wasn't because of her, that was because of the disease. And I will forever be thankful for the journey that I went on with her. She brought me to a place where I went into my first bout of remission with Lyme and really I realized it was just a quiet plateau cuz it wasn't fully remitted, it just was quiet.

And, um, but I'm so thankful for the work we did together. I was on IV antibiotics with her for about two years. But the difference is she pumped me full of supplements, changed my diet, um, had me build up my gut as much as I could. Mm-hmm. And changed everything. And then, um, we know you can only go so far, and I was still not better.

So I then switched to a natural path who was fantastic. I was really appreciative of all that I learned there. Um, I learned quite a bit, um, about different modalities of healing. And, um, I'm forever grateful for that too, but I was not getting the true health that I sought. That's when I met you. Mm-hmm. So this was 13 years.

Mm-hmm. Actually when I met you, I think I'd only been in it for 11 years at that point. Hmm. Um, and, but it was, and then you and I, we started a different journey in a different path. And because of your sensitivity and your, your deep thirst for knowledge, knew and know so much more.

About how to rebuild a body holistically. Mm-hmm. It's something that's missing, um, in modern medicine and mainstream medicine, I should say. Um, because you understand, you, you're very modern. You use all kinds of tests and well formulated supplements, so modern is the wrong word. Um, but you, you don't just board your knowledge.

You share your knowledge and you teach your clients how to care for themselves, um, which is a gift. And now some people can take that knowledge and, and grow with it and use it, and others just wanna be like, you do the work and that's fine. You allowed that in both spaces and it's, it's great. And, It's been a, it's been a tough journey, but yes.

Lyme disease stopped my life at 29. Literally stopped it. Mm-hmm. Um, I was bedridden for years. Um, but there's some, there's some good that came out of it. See, shifting. Shifting the uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessi: Lyme is one of the biggest challenges I think the body can face cuz Lyme is really an umbrella term.

Uh mm-hmm. There's so many co-infections and things that occur under that title, uh mm-hmm. That are less even lesser known. Um, but it's, it is also an opportunity to really come to know the body. And Shiloh, you made the most of that opportunity. You really did. Uh, and that's not to take away from the intense.

Challenge that it was, uh, but that is always the hope that if something really horrific happens, that there is still beauty to be found within it. Absolutely. And as you've shared, I think it's a gifting of yours to find that, to find the diamond, to find the rainbow within, you know, during and even after the storm.

Yeah. Um, but it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that journey and I think. So many things you said are so helpful for anyone that's on a journey. Uh, technically we all are on a healing journey in general. And then there's these big healing seasons, you know, that we can go through, especially sensitives and you've gone through many big healing seasons.

Um, thank you. But I love what you said of, I'm a huge fan too, of having a team. Mm-hmm. Uh, because then you're not putting one practitioner on a pedestal as, as God. Right. Right, right. And so then you just do whatever they say and you're kind of like at their, their whim. Um, and you're subject to their personal limitations.

Cuz every practitioner has limitations. And so to be able to diversify and say, Hey, I see value in all different kinds of healing, all different kinds of training, and let's bring it all in, you know? Yeah. Let's not have any limits here. So I fully agree with that. And I think that was to your, to your benefit.

And uh, and even still, like I feel like each person we touch, even if they don't maybe give us what we were hoping for in the moment. I know it's same journey for me. I sought so many practitioners on my healing journey. Yeah. But each one of them gave us some knowledge about ourselves that we have forever.

Right. And it's absolutely, it's a gift. And so, but there was something that was missing and so it launched us to the next person, which we needed that launch, that catalyst. Mm-hmm. And so on and so forth. And so I think there is beauty too in allowing yourself the freedom to progress because as sensitives, I dunno if this happened to you a lot, but.

With me. I felt so emotionally tied to my practitioners that I would stay with them longer than I should have. Cause I felt guilty. I felt like almost like they needed me, which was like a weird thing. But I, I had a hard time releasing. And so I see that a lot with other senses. There's like this, we're very loyal people and yeah, we are.

And so feeling that permission to say, you know, I respect that person, but this is actually about me this time. Like, I have to put my body first and my body needs either another practitioner or another approach, or another, uh, way of thinking, another perspective, another therapy. And so I have to expand and go elsewhere.

Uh, so that is, that's huge. I'm, I'm so proud of you for moving and progressing and growing and expanding and, uh, Yeah. And being able to see that too, that's huge.

Shiloh: It's hard. I think it really helped to have such a good support system at home. It's not perfect. Nothing really truly is perfect, but it's been very, very good to have a sounding board, to have people to support me, people to hold me up, literally.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I know so many people who have not that I don't have that. Yeah. And that to me is the most tragic part. And I know so many people who have quit on their journey to health and they accept the Meyer that they're stuck in. They they're stuck there. And something I learned when I was very, very sick is that there is at least one perfect moment of every day.

We as humans have a deep desire for perfection. It clause at ours inside, but we also know it's not attainable, in this life. That being said, there is a perfect moment, at least one in every day. And it could be just a second, a less than a second, but if you seek it out and find it, it kind of gives that renewed hope that there's something beautiful in every day that you're gonna find.

it can be a day riddled with pain, excruciating pain and seizures and, horror but that one moment, whether it's the sunset or a breeze that didn't hurt or a sip of coffee, I know we'll talk about coffee later, but that little, that little moment of sheer bliss, that perfection is there. And I tell people that, but that, that really did help me.

Yeah. Get through some real dark times. And, um, I mean, you, you were with me on a really, well, we could talk forever, but you were with me on some really dark stuff. In including the mental health where all my neurotransmitters tanked. Thanks, COVID. Yeah. Um, it just, they tanked. And so, and it's so strange to tell people that I was depressed and had anxiety, but I was not depressed, nor did I have anxiety.

Um, cuz they're like, what are you talking about? I said, well, well, there is a difference. There is physical anxiety and physical depression where your body just doesn't work. it feels the anxiety, it feels everything, but, you know, somewhere deep inside you, you're fine. Like you're having a good emotional day, but the body is so messed up that it, it will, it will feel that anxiety for you.

Mm-hmm. And so it takes your mind and your spirit into that world and it is so hard. Mm-hmm. So hard to get through that. Thankfully we got through it. Mm-hmm. Lots of supplements, therapy. We're good now. Life is fine. But it's a very, the body, man body, right? We can learn so much once we learn what those little things are, that kind of lead.

But it's so important to have a guide, with you on that journey. Someone to point at you and go, oh, well, the reason you are feeling like the world is ending when you wake up is because your tyrosine levels are low. What do you mean? Well, your epinephrine needs some help. What do you mean? You mean I'm not just a morose person?

No, you're not. You're look at this test When you feel this kind of headache, you need to take this supplement because you're tanking on this level of a neurotransmitter. And it's different for everybody, but it's so helpful to have somebody just say, Hey, guess what? That little weird tummy ache you're feeling isn't just because you, you're human.

It's because you actually have Giardia. You know, it's like, oh, oh, that's a real thing. You can get in a real world. It's a real thing. People watch out in Vegas. I'm just saying, oh, don't drink the water. Um, but anyway, I, I'm blabbing. I don't know where I'm going with it.

Jessi: Oh, I'm just sitting here like, so proud of you.

I'm just

Shiloh: Thank you. Like a little mother hand, just like, whoa. I, I remember what I wanted to say. Um, because you stop working with a practitioner doesn't mean that they're horrible or you are horrible. Mm. It doesn't, it just means that that's the time I, I grieved when we stopped working together. Mm mm-hmm.

It was the time to stop working together. Mm-hmm. Um, on my health. Mm-hmm. But I grieved. It also was the same time, my therapist was like, well, you're healthy now. I'm like, mm-hmm. If she left me and I was just, I remember you were like, it was the end of here. End the end of the year too. And I'm like, are you kidding me?

But it's important to go through that. It's important to, to understand that things are gonna change. And I don't know if this is a sensitive thing. I hate change. Hmm. Hate change. It's hard

for

Jessi: us as sensitives. Definitely.

Shiloh: It completely happens all the time. Every day. No matter what you do, nothing's gonna stay the same.

And you can't control your environment. And that's the other thing too. I don't know if you do this, but I do this, I am so picky about controlling my environment. Mm-hmm. As much as I can. Mm-hmm. Um, and I've stopped caring. If people think I'm, what is it? I'm gonna say a bad word, people. If people think I'm a bitch, I don't care.

Jessi: Yeah. That's power right there.

Shiloh: It's just don't give a fuck. Right. Exactly.

Jessi: That's, that is healing is arriving at that place. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Spur a sensitive at least. It's huge. It's huge. It's, it's hard. I mean, I still feel

Shiloh: like I don't wanna be self-absorbed. Mm-hmm. Um, but there is an element of self-absorption that has to come with healing.

Mm-hmm. Um, because nobody else is gonna do it for you. Exactly. Nobody knows what your body feels like, but

Jessi: it's called stewardship.

Shiloh: Yeah. That's a good way of looking at it, but mm-hmm. Wanting to make life easier for everyone else is a huge driving force of me that I have to channel into different mm-hmm.

Ways of doing that in a healthy manner. Yeah. So, yes. Do I wanna make people comfortable? Sure. At the expense of myself anymore? No. And that is such a hard, uncomfortable feeling to live with as somebody, because I, I can feel when somebody's disappointed, sad, angry, mad. Mm-hmm. And I, I all of their thoughts and feelings, whether they feel it or not, whether they acknowledge it.

Yeah.

Jessi: You have to process that. It's hard cuz when we as sensitive say no, it's not just like, oh, then we're done. It's like we have to process that person's experience of us saying no as well as like how we feel saying no. And then just the whole, the whole thing. It's so much work. And I think yeah. Saying no is more exhausting in many ways than saying Yes.

Yep. In, at least in the short term. And so it can be very tempting, especially when we're low on energy, low on capacity. Ironically, we tend to lean towards just saying yes because it seems like in the moment the easiest thing. Yeah.

Shiloh: Well also too, our, our guards are down more. Mm-hmm. Um, our protective barriers.

Yeah. They're all, they're all down. And so it's, if we just go along, then we can conserve the energy, like you were saying. Yeah. But also we don't have, our natural inclination is to say Yes. So our natural inclination is going to be Yes. When we are not feeling well. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's hard. Yeah. I've, I've literally had to have to, I've literally had to have people tell me to go take a nap.

Like

Jessi: I, I know I did it for years.

Shiloh: Yeah, I know, right? No, you're gonna go take a nap. Go sit down, stop. Lay down. Like one of the first things that you had me do was just lay in bed until like nine, and I'm like, Why? Yeah, I hate

Jessi: her, but this feels

Shiloh: good, but ugh,

how dare she tell me to sleep? How dare she lay horizontal? So know. I was like, no, I can't do this. You're not letting me play. You're, oh my gosh. Yeah. For those that are listening, that really happened. For those

Jessi: that are listening, that, I mean obviously, you know, um, my clientele is a quite a small group cause I'm very selective, but, I always forget that people don't know how I work with people, but one of the things I offer is, uh, a chat feature.

And so we have our sessions and they're pretty regular, but we have this continual conversation that I think is a big part of my healing. Huge part, huge part of it. And so just the amount of messages I would get from Shiloh about like, so I feel amazing today. I think I wanna get a puppy or I, I feel amazing today.

I think I would go do this. I'm like, so you had one good day.

Shiloh: Let's maybe build up our reserves a bit.

Jessi: Before we start caring for another being again, like let's just take

Shiloh: a beat. That is the most accurate description of me. Oh my God. Anyone has ever brought, it was hilarious

Jessi: cuz I was just like, my heart was like, I know how badly, like you want to love on animals and people and all these things.

And so it was hard even for me to be like,

Shiloh: no, shy. Like

Jessi: let's think about this. And also trying to like encourage you to like get into that frame of mind of like my body first, my body first, my body first. Because I don't ever want to, and I don't think we should ever quell our natural love and desire for serving and caring for people.

That's literally why we're here. It's our gifting, but we just do it backwards. And so it's retraining ourselves to care for ourselves, build up our capacity, build up our reserves, and then from that place, We can love and just drown people in our joy and in our carings. Right, right. But, uh, we have to have those reserves first.

And that is honestly where sickness comes from, is not having the reserves and constantly giving out and out, out from a place of depletion. You're just, there's nothing. It's like you're, yeah. You just giving from an empty bucket. You're in the negative. And, uh, and so it was, it was beautiful to when you started, at least from my perspective, when you started to see those results and you started to feel Yeah.

Huge energy return. And you were like, oh my gosh. And I think there was part of you, at least from my perspective, that was like, oh. We don't know when we'll have this again. So we gotta make the most of this moment because we're, we know we could lose it any second. And over time it started to, you started to rebuild that trust in your body of mm-hmm.

Oh, this is here to stay. Oh, I can rebuild this. Oh, I have control over this. Oh. Like, then it was like, okay, yeah,

Shiloh: this is amazing. It's a really, um, uncomfortable feeling actually. Mm-hmm. Um, to have that kind of excitement because after decades and decades of not, of knowing that it's gonna go away. Yeah. And then to believe that it, it's not is truly freeing, but freedom is scary.

Mm-hmm. And there's a reason why people will politically keep, keep trying to bring in dictatorships people who wanna control them. And, and that's not same one way or the other. I think we often want people to. Um, contain us because true freedom is terrifying. Mm-hmm. And to have the freedom of help is, it's almost like being given the lottery and, and you're just like, is it real?

Is it mine? Do I get to really keep it? Are you gonna come and take it away in a year? Mm-hmm. Um, but that's kind of also just living,

I think working so hard to get here, um, shows me I can do it again. Absolutely. If I have to fall back. But I also now have a lot of. Different clues to tell me when I've been pushing too hard. Mm-hmm. Um, for example, I gotta tell you, like, I think I told you this already, but listen to me, I'm just going to keep talking your poor podcast.

It's just Shilah. This is,

Jessi: this is my podcast. Welcome. This is how it goes.

Shiloh: Okay. Uh, um, I was gonna say, so last week I caught shingles. Mm-hmm. Which I was gonna tie into a couple of the things. I felt very sick last Monday, but it started Sunday evening and I thought, okay, I felt really sick. I don't know what's wrong with me.

Um, and then my mom came back on that Monday after an appointment and said she had shingles and I'm, I live with her and I'd given her a massage for Mother's Day over that lovely area. And although my immune system is much better, it's not perfect. So, um, I still did not have a rash. I didn't have anything pop up, so there was no thing but.

Thankfully, because I have wonderful doctors who trust and believe me mm-hmm. Listened to my symptoms and went, oh yeah, no, you probably have it. Put me on antivirals because I've worked with you. I know when I go on something that's that hardcore, um, there are some certain up supplements I gotta bring back into my regimen and certain supplements I need up.

And I did that and I was sick and I did break out in a rash on around my eye. It was very gentle. It wasn't the pain that you would experience in shingles. Um, it itched. I was six six sick for a week. I'm still not a hundred percent. That's fine. Um, but because of the work we've done where I have to pay attention to the minutiae of my body, so that is now almost, I don't pay, like, I'm not aware that I'm paying attention to it.

Mm-hmm. Dramatic. Um, you feel I felt sick instantly. Mm-hmm. Versus the three, four days it takes for it to incubate and become a thing. And because I could feel it instantly. And I took the medicine right away. I did not have the, the tremendous problems that can come with shingles, thank God. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that is the beauty of being a sensitive is that you're gonna feel when, like, I felt this way when I caught covid both times.

Shiloh: You remember? Oh, yeah. Um, I felt it days before it popped up on a test, and it's not, it's not, um, what is it called when people are hypo hypochondria? Oh, right. It's not mm-hmm. Hypochondrial. Mm-hmm. It's, it's just, it just is like, I know my body way better than anybody else does. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And if you surround yourself with people like I did, who believe you mm-hmm.

And know the kind of stuff you've lived through, and they will give you the support that you need, then you can move forward. And not put yourself in a super damaging space. Mm-hmm. Health-wise. So I guess what my point is, is that once given the gift of the freedom of health, I have learned what it takes to maintain it.

And that is paying attention to the little list of things and doing it in a way that you're not, like in the beginning and through the journey, you're like, oh my gosh, you tell everybody, everybody what your symptoms are all day long. You lose friends, it's okay. You'll get more later. And once you get to a place of help, you can just, you just know, you just run in, it's like a constant computer running in the background.

Your brain, you're running checks all the time, so you are no longer consciously having to process it with yourself or with others. You just kind of go, bing. Oh, that's why I had migraines for a week. Got it. Boom. Take this and it. It helps a lot. Yeah, it helps a lot. Did I talking a lot? That's perfect.

Jessi: What you're describing, Shiloh, is everything we work towards, which is helping you ultimately.

Translate what your body is asking of you. That is true health because, and I know we've talked about this a lot, the reality that, oh, I, I just like do this test, I take these supplements, or I take this medication and then I'm done and I'm perfect. And if something goes wrong after that, then like something, like something's wrong with me.

You know? It's like, no, your body is meant to go through many different seasons and you're gonna be exposed to things and you're going to be, you're going to get sick and like stuff is going to happen. It's not about that. And it's not about managing that. It's about having a body that is number one resilient and has a solid foundational, healthy base that if whatever comes your way, you're able to move through it with ease.

And the second is that you can read the signs, you can translate the language of your body because most people, most sensitives, they. They've disconnected so much from their body that they can't hear those messages, or they're, they've associated them with the wrong things, which is super common, right? Um, because they're, they're trying to figure it out, but it's, they've, they've disconnected.

So it's not super clear. And sometimes, honestly, it does require some training. And so you and I did a lot of training on that of like, okay, shallow, you're feeling this symptom. What is your body asking for? You know? And together as a partnership, we uncovered that through testing, through experimentation, through trial and error.

Um, because your body is unique, there is no other Shiloh, right? So together we found the language of your body, we interpreted it. And now you have that tool and you can be the advocate. You can be. The literal voice for your physical body with whatever practitioner you want and choose with whatever therapy you want.

Like, you can make that call. And so you are now in the driver's seat again, as opposed to giving away the keys, right. To a doctor, someone with a fancy degree or even that cool, famous, functional, you know, practitioner. Yeah. I don don't care what world they're from, but very true. We, we tend to do that. Like you said, we almost wanna give it away because it feels easier to just be told what to do than to actually, like people talk about, oh, we need to find the root cause.

Like that's so, you know, that's, that's the trendy thing in my world. Like what's the root cause? Like don't just treat the symptoms, treat the root cause, which I love that. But let's go deeper than that. I mean,

Shiloh: let's go deeper than that. How

Jessi: do we actually like resolve the disconnect that has created that quote unquote root cause?

Like how about the actual environment in where. You're not even listening to what's going on. So I think you reestablished that, that true foundation.

Shiloh: Well, I think Thank you. And it was, it was a lot of work on your part, um, helping me do that, and I'm appreciative of that. I also think that as sensitive, we tend to live so much in the spirit realm.

Hmm. Um, whatever that looks like for your own spiritual journey. But yeah, in general, energetically, um, mentally we just check out, um, of this body mm-hmm. Because we're paying attention to so many other things that are coming at us, that it's, the, the information is just as strong. It's, it's coming at us at all the same kind of level mm-hmm.

Of information. And so, um, because a spiritual realm is more attractive, because there's more questions there. Mm-hmm. I think we tend to live there more. Um, and I think that's where the disconnect comes from the body. Yeah. And I mean, it could be different. I know that that's the case for me also, pain is not my friend.

Mm-hmm. Except it is my friend.

Jessi: Nice. Yeah. It's, it's hard, but it is your friend. Yeah. Right.

Shiloh: I feel like I'm that friend a lot to a lot of people. Like you are my pain, Shiloh. Um, cause I don't shy away from telling people truths. Yeah. Um, and pain is only telling you truth. Oh, that's, that's awesome. That's so good.

Yeah. It's just telling you truth. Mm-hmm. And it's not gonna lie to you. Pain never lies. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's not posy. It's not gonna make you feel all the good things all the time. But yeah. It's not gonna lie though. Learning to live with pain, um, I think is a mistake. Mm-hmm. Um, because you don't, you shouldn't live with it because when you live with something, you ignore it.

Mm-hmm. Um, I think rather it's, it's more like a child that is screaming all the time. You need to acknowledge that your child is screaming, find out why they're screaming. Um, and then if you can sue that, soothe it. But that's my, that's my take on it. I

Jessi: love that illustration. That's really helpful. Thanks.

Thank you for sharing, Shiloh. I thank you. I have like a few more questions that I, I wanna run by you before I fully let you go. Cause I know there's probably people that are listening, they're like, oh my gosh, tell me more. Um, I think one thing I wanted to talk about a little bit, because this is not something I I see often or hear often, and it's something I'm, I'm personally passionate about.

And I know we've walked through it and I feel like you did a really good job of it. So I want, even though it was hard, I wanna talk about what it looks like to finish a healing season. Because like I said, we all are on a healing journey, but we have these seasons and there is a tendency, especially if you've experienced chronic illness, to just keep going and going and going and going.

Sure, sure. And, uh, I'm really passionate about saying there is a stopping point at which you now don't need me. And there's Right.

Shiloh: That's not cool, man.

Jessi: And I know that. I, I remember being like, I need to have this conversation with Shiloh. It's time. Mm-hmm. Like, she is ready and I can, I felt, um, I felt from you this split of you, you knew you were ready.

I think you knew deep down. I knew, but also this, like, but I love what we've had and I, and I feel so safe with you and I, what if something happens? You know, I want, I want connection. Um, and, and for me as a practitioner to be like fully transparent with you, like, and with everyone listening, there's also that pull of like, oh, I, I've built a relationship with you, you know, and I cherish it and I love being a support system to you.

Um. Mm-hmm. But as a sensitive, it's important for me to acknowledge when I. I, you know, it's like, no, it's time for me. Like, she is good now. She doesn't like, she doesn't Right. Any longer need my partnership. And if I remained, it would create this codependent relationship that is not healthy and would not support you or I, right?

And so it's tough when that starts to arise and you're like, Ooh, it's hard. It's hard. It was so beautiful. I remember having the conversation with you and you being like, okay, I know I was, it was hard, but I was so proud. I was so proud of you and thanks. And even since then, you know, the, the conversations we've had, the dms we've had of just like, yeah, I've seen you work so hard to hold healthy boundaries and to, I try, I try something.

I know. And I'm so, so proud of you and, and also to see you say like, I've got this, you know, like you've taught me, I know what to do. I'm going to trust my body. And even like yeah, with the shingles that recently happened, just getting to hear about that and it's, it's

Shiloh: beautiful.

Jessi: Yeah.

Shiloh: All the guys, I blame her because I caught Covid like a week after we stopped working together.

So I'm just saying, but I, I, and I, you know, you were so good with me cuz it was so brand new that I had, that we had stopped working together that I was like, I know I'm not supposed to ask you, but I don't remember the supplements for Covid. It was, I felt so bad. No, I, because one of the biggest things I think about this health journey is really understanding what boundaries mean and what they are, and boundaries are sacred to me.

And so I'm that person that will be like, if this is the boundary, and I've, I've told you this before too, since we've stopped working together, I've been like, if this is a boundary, you have to tell me. I dunno, but is this the line? Is this the line? Yeah. But it's not me testing it. It's not me trying to find or push or poke or be a grad.

It's just trying to navigate and shift and change, um, relationship. Um, because it's so important to not walk away. So it was hard, like I said. So the transition was difficult. Um, it was true grieving in the sense that I was losing you and my therapist. Two huge supports in my life, my daily life for years.

Mm-hmm. Um, But it was also a beautiful strength because I was healthy. I'm now healthier than most people in the room that I'm in. I still have allergies, but they're resolving, which like what allergies don't resolve unless you've worked with Jesse. Um, that's not a promise people, it's just a, I don't make promises.

No promises, no promises. But you did tell me your allergies will lessen. And I'm like, okay. And guys, my allergies were so bad. Oh yeah. I put a quick

Jessi: rundown on that cause I have no idea like how big of a deal that is.

Shiloh: Oh, okay. Uh, I forget. So, no, I'm allergic to, or I was allergic. I'm not claiming it now, but I was allergic to so many things to the point where my diet was very limited.

Um, it is limited still, but nothing like it was, um, I couldn't leave the house for months. During the spring, summer, sometimes fall. Um, if I did, it would have to be very quick. I couldn't breathe. I was on oxygen tanks, so

Jessi: many prescriptions,

Shiloh: so many, and I'm still on those prescriptions, but I'm coming down off of them.

I'm slowly able to kind of let them go. I've changed out medications since then. I've, um, moved from like Claritin to a holistic version that's healthier for my body, which is actually teaching my body to build histamines. Mm-hmm. Um, right. Histamines, well, whatever. Anyway, it's

Jessi: helpful to properly clear them.

Yeah. Keep going. Yeah. And so it's fine.

Shiloh: And so, but what we learned is that my gut health is the essential key component. Mm-hmm. Now, I will still struggle with some of that until I'm able to come off of the cortisol. Mm-hmm. Steroids, whatever. Once I'm able to get off of all of my inhalers. But to give you an idea, guys, this time last year, I would not have been able to have this conversation for this long, during this time of year.

Uh, the year before that, I wouldn't be able to have a conversation at all. The year before that, I would've been in bed with oxygen. and not moving, cuz moving. I couldn't breathe. Mm-hmm. So yes, I'm still on two inhalers twice a day and a shot I take every two weeks, but it's a different dosage than it was before.

And I'm able to hold a career where I can talk. And I can go outside, not for long periods at the moment, but I can go outside. So during the winter though, I was able to go outside for all day and be fine. Where the year before. So last year, that wasn't a possibility. I could go out for an hour total. Um, so spring, you know, we're in a super bloom here in southern California this year.

Yeah. And you

Jessi: live in the country too, like in the middle? I live in

Shiloh: the country, so it's pretty, pretty intense. It's intense, y'all, but it's, I can, I can handle it. Um, I just, I have air, air filters, I've got all the things, but I'm able to go outside and be okay. And not immediately go, which I was doing so.

The fact that I can heal, and my parents are so cute. They're like, when do we get to get a dog again? Like, you're so healthy now. When can we get a pet? I'm like, yo, hold back. Because they've learned to say no. I'm so, so proud of you right now. I know, right? Well, I'm, I'm getting that dog, Jessie. I know.

You're, I'm, I'm figuring out how to drink that coffee. Right. And I

Jessi: fully support that. I fully support that. As long as it, it chasity remains. Yeah.

Shiloh: Right. Well, and the thing is I'm like, you know, I think we'll be able to really, truly consider it in another year. Yeah. Um, this is not the year, and that's okay.

So if we need to look at puppy pictures to make our little hearts happy, right. But we don't, we don't need that dog right now. And I've, I've been able to test those little kinds of allergies. I've been able to add foods back in. I've been able to appear normal so that when people are like, oh yeah, no, I have allergies too.

I'm like, cool. And I don't go. You have no idea back off. Yeah.

Jessi: Don't even start with me. Right. So healing, healing is a process.

Shiloh: Mm-hmm. But the fact that I'm healthy now is weird. Mm-hmm. It's a really strange feeling and I embrace it because weird is who I am. So love that I embrace the hell Beautiful comes with it.

Yeah. But I forget sometimes how much I've had to work. Mm-hmm. Um, which she told me would happen. Mm-hmm. I was like, no. Okay. Seriously guys, every time Jessie has told me something will happen, and I'm like, no, she's right. So just listen to her. Okay. Oh my gosh. I just like, it's just crazy. Like, yay. So funny.

Jessi: I, one of the questions I had, I realized was, and I feel like we've kind of answered this in our rabbit trail way, but was just mm-hmm. You know, like I said at the beginning, I, one of the biggest feelings I received from you was just this hopelessness, like this just total, not like a ugh, like whiny hopelessness, but just like, I feel like I've tried everything.

Like Right. I, I just, I don't even know anymore. You know, like, is it even like, can you just get me to like a manageable place? Like true health isn't even an option. And no, I

Shiloh: wouldn't even say it was hopelessness. I would just say it was re resignation.

Jessi: Mm. That's a better word. Yeah.

Shiloh: This is where I am. This is my life now.

This is who I am. Accept it. Mm-hmm. I can live a pretty decent life, but could you just get me past this one little part where I can't eat anything but potatoes? Cuz I'd appreciate that. Thanks. Literally, guys, when I first started working with her, all I could eat was potatoes and rice because everything else caused way too much pain.

And I would spend hours on the couch balling up afterwards. So to say I looked model chic was definitely a thing to say. I was desperately unhealthy and malnourished also a thing, not saying ma models are malnourished and unhealthy. I'm saying for me, for my body. Oh.

Jessi: And now like I just, I I I sense so much there.

You've, you've always been joyful. Um, so that's hasn't shifted, you know, in a, in a big way, but more just this underlying like, Oh, this is real. Like I feel like you've just expanded. I think that's a good word of like the world is my oyster now, and I've seen it trickle into other areas where you're like, oh my gosh, I can per like Even the career you're pursuing right now.

Yeah. I just like the fact that this just boomed like right after. Yeah. Like through this whole process, I'm just, Ugh. Like from the allergies to now you're of a narrator, you know, where your voice is not only free. Mm-hmm And you have access to it, but now it's gifted to oth, to authors and to people that are listening and ugh.

I just, I see so much beauty come forward for you. And I'm seriously like, I see such a huge, exciting. Future. And, um, thank you. Yeah. So I'm thrilled

Shiloh: for you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. There's so much more to talk about, but I know our time's getting closed. Yeah. Is there any other questions? Cuz I'm like, we could do like another four hours on this.

I know. I'm sorry. One, we haven't even touched energy

Jessi: come. Yeah, I know. All right. I know. I've, like, I've tiptoed around the fact that like, you're incredibly clairvoyant and that was, that was really cool too, to like work with you and like tune in together to that and use that for your healing as well. Um, but the one question I have, and I ask all my guests this, it's a fun one.

Okay. If you were a plant of any kind, a flower, an herb, whatever it is, a tree, anything living really mm-hmm. That falls into the plant kingdom, what would you be, what captures your essence?

Shiloh: So I'm joke, I'm laughing inside because we, we have a little joke around my family, um, that I am a wasabi plant. Okay.

Oh, wasabi Plants are notoriously difficult to grow and they catch every disease that comes by. Oh my gosh. They also, they also call me, they, yeah, they also call me hot house orchid because I need a very controlled environment to survive and I'm hot,

very hot, spicy hot, spicy hot. Um, but if I were to choose Yeah, choose for yourself, I would Um hmm. Plants and I are contentious relationships. Um, I love them. They're just try to kill me. So I'm like, um, I would probably, I. I would probably describe myself best as a gerra or Gerber daisy. Um, they're my favorite flower, and they are for a reason.

They're so colorful and open and honest, and yet very different. If you're coming across flowers, you're, you're not gonna be, you can see so many different intricate kinds of petals and closed pets and, you know, wavy petals, and they're everywhere on all these flowers and sunflowers are just like, Daisy, the whole family, like Geber.

I'm like, hello. Okay. So yeah, not only are they just spread out and open, they're, they're gonna be the most vibrant colors that are like, look at me. Mm-hmm. And so I would say that's, that's probably best describes me. I

Jessi: totally see that. I love it. I love it. I literally am picturing

Shiloh: those kid costumes around their.

And then the Shiloh face. That's what I'm picturing right now. Like on the stems. It's like the Teletubbies baby in the sun. Yes. Oh my God. Like I'm in the flower. Yep. That's me guys. That's, I see it. That's beautiful. Oh my gosh.

Jessi: Shiloh, thank you so much for your time, for opening up, sharing your journey. And I know this is just like a toe dip in the bucket, but you are, you are such a radiant light, and it's been an honor to witness your journey and when need to cry, stop.

Shiloh: Sh. Thank you. Let's move on. But honestly, to cry, cry

Jessi: like I'm, I'm just, I'm overwhelmed with pride for you and excitement for you and just so grateful. Um, For you to be this walking light for all the other sensitives that are tuning in right now, even the ones that are in your life that have witnessed you.

And, uh, you are a beautiful embodiment of hope and of perseverance and resilience and courage. You're one of the most courageous people I know you've gone through hell and back, and I've literally witnessed it, and your grit is just insane. So carry on. The world is just blooming in front of you and it's, ugh.

It's just exciting to see. Thanks for

Shiloh: coming up. Thank you. Thank you, Jesse, for having me. It's been a pleasure and more ways than you know, but I've told you you're, you are a light in a godsend, so thank you. I'm terrible with this stuff. You made me cry. Yay. Freaking. Hey, man. Aw, we love you. I'm gonna give you a hug and then I gotta go.

Well

Jessi: done, Shiloh. Thank you so much for coming on, sweetheart. Well, well, well done. Thank you. Yeah,

Shiloh: thank you. Seriously, thank you. And I hope everyone out there understands what a gem she is and that in your journey, if you don't have the opportunity to work with her one-on-one, that's okay, because she's telling you what you need every day in her posts, in her stories, in her groups, in her online classes, everything, podcasts, she's already telling you.

And, um, I don't know if she realizes she's giving it away for free, but she is. It's out there. So, um, anything you can glean, you're gonna be fine. And if you don't get the chance to work with her individually, that's okay. You can still be healthy. Mm-hmm. She's not the key to help. You are. Exactly.

Jessi: Oh, well said.

Well said. Yeah. But

Shiloh: thank you. Ooh, that was a hug. People. That was a hug. With an air hug. They're real. They are real.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

Connect with Shiloh

• @shicurls

---

Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi

Episode 39: Curating a Safe Healthy & Beautiful Home as a Natural Sensitive With Ashley Spanovich

Conversation

Episode 39 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jessi Michel Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi: Ashley, it's so great to have you on.Thank you for joining us today.

Ashley: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you.

Jessi: I am just like giddy. Like I woke up this morning overjoyed that we were having this conversation cause I was like, yay. I get to, I get to ask her all the questions. I'm such a little nerd about just environmental building and just home health because it's been such a huge part of my own healing journey and therefore has translated into a lot of my own work with my clients.

Um, but I am, I can't give to it my full attention and my full expertise. And so I just am so grateful for you and the passion that you've poured into your business and your work because it's so needed and it's gonna be needed more and more and more as we know. So, yeah. Uh, before I give away everything that you do, uh, would you tell us a little bit about your story and how you landed in this profession and in this world?

I know it's a fun one. So bring us into who you are and how you landed here.

Ashley: Yes. Oh my gosh. Uh, story goes back long, long time ago. I'd say it started for me in college. Um, and it's really still evolving today. So, uh, it started in college. Um, I studied interior design. I was being, coming in interior designer.

I was really always into sustainable design. And, um, I loved the built environment. I loved design, but at the time, you know, my desire was creating pretty spaces and I loved the idea of how we felt in our spaces and how our environment had the power to make us feel such a special way. And I was always the type of person who moved my furniture in my room like 15 times and like changed it up constantly, was always changing.

 Um, so I was really passionate about interior design. Uh, but after college I moved to Pittsburgh and I began working with my family's development company. Uh, they do, uh, different apartments in Pittsburgh. And so I started helping them doing space planning for that. And I was also doing a lot of the grunt work.

So a lot of actually going in and painting the spaces and Wow. Okay. Really getting my hands dirty because it was a family business and everyone did everything. So, um, at the time, simultaneously I'm doing that. I'm, I'm spraying walls. I'm not wearing a mask. I'm in a ton of construction dust. I'm not putting anything together.

I'm just, yeah, doing what everyone has always done. And it's very, very common in residential design, uh, or residential construction I've learned. But I was experiencing really, really, Odd health symptoms. Um, the biggest one I talk about this a lot, is I really thought I was losing my mind. Um, I went through really, uh, big bouts of depression, um, anxiety, uh, forgetfulness, um, and more so like memory loss.

I wouldn't be able to remember somebody's name who I knew really well, and it was standing right in front of me. Uh, and then it would start to make me panic. And then I'm like, why can't I remember their name? Like, I know this person. Um, and it was really, really scary time. So I started to dive into holistic health.

Um, I found the, um, Institute for Integrative Nutrition and I was like, I'm gonna do the courses and try to learn as much as I can. And that kind of opened me up to. It opened me up to the world of holistic health, but man, it was just the tip of the iceberg.

Jessi: It's the classic entry. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Ashley: Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and I was like, I'm gonna, I'm, you know what, like, I became so passionate about health and trying to figure out my own health, and I wanted to just leave doing interior design. And at this time, I had, was working in another firm, um, and an architecture firm. And, uh, I had thought about giving it up and becoming a health coach.

Um, and so there was this time where I was sort of like health coaching my friends, but that was on the side and just teaching people what I was learning and, um, it, it continued. I, I started to feel a little bit better, but I never quite got to the root cause. Um, I, I always, like, I continued to have these memory issues and.

This like anxiety, um, and just fatigue and skin issues and digestive, oh my gosh, the digestive issues. I almost forget what my symptoms were now because Yeah, it's so far behind me. But it was so it took so long to figure it all out. So then anyways, uh, it wasn't really until I went to Mexico must have picked up some sort of bug that I found a practitioner who had a full script account that could get me this probiotic.

I wanted this specific probiotic I wanted. I love it. And she's like, oh, uh, tell me your symptoms. Like, what have you done? And she's like, I'm happy to just get you the probiotic, but I think you need to do some scans, some testing. And I was like, okay. So I started, we did the full gamut. I got so lucky finding her because mm-hmm.

She just ran all the tests, the right tests, you know, I didn't have to go from doctor to doctor to doctor to figure it out. Amazing. I just found someone and got so lucky that she was able to do the right tests and lead me to finding out, um, uh, really led me and opened up the can of worms of mold, um, heavy metals, um, different viruses and pathogens and all of these different root causes.

But the one that hit me the most was the mold. Um, I had really high levels of mycotoxins in my system. Um, and once I began to. Open up my drainage pathways and detox the mold was when I really noticed the biggest impact on my health. Yeah. And that was the beginning of the end for me. Yeah. I was like, what mold?

You know? Um, because I had lived in very moldy homes in college. My mom would always tell me, oh my gosh, like, this place is so moldy. How are you living here? But I just wanted to live with my friends. I was like, what do you mean, like mold? Like, no big deal. I don't see anything. It looks fine. Mm-hmm. Um, and thinking back on it, it actually, hurts me to think back at some of the places I live because I, I know how mold they work now and, and I can connect my health to my environment.

Um, but yeah, so um, anyways, I decided and kind of, you know, it opened up that can of arms of, okay, well why is there mold and how do I remove it? And. You know, what is the root cause of mold? Like for me, I wanted to understand like, well, how do we really truly prevent it? Um, which led me to, uh, let's see, sort of, it led me to building biology first.

Mm-hmm. And then into building science and, um, working with different contractors and professionals who kind of helped me understand, um, some of the things in our, our building practices today that are lacking. Uh, and so I, you know, after I learned all of this, I really couldn't go back. Um, I would go into my job at my architecture firm every day, and we were putting, you know, vinyl wallpaper, um, in healthcare.

I was working in healthcare, uh, when I actually ended up, that was the firm I was working at before I left to start Awakening Spaces. And I'm putting, you know, vinyl on the floor, vinyl on the walls, and we're not thinking about any of this stuff. And I just. I was like, what? This isn't right. Like, none of this feels right anymore.

Um, and I just totally quit my job and was like, I'm just gonna start talking about what I'm learning and just start putting into practice what I know. Um, even though I know there's still so much to learn. Um, just started doing it and it's, you know, it, it's one of those things with interior design in general, uh, things are changing so fast.

The technology is changing so fast, there's always gonna be so much to learn. Um, but I feel like I have a, a solid understanding now of. Some of the things we need to do and be thinking about, which it's, it's one of the, it is another one of those things that now it's like the more you know, the less you feel, you know?

Yeah. Yes. So, you know, there's more certifications that will be coming for me and more, uh, knowledge that I wanna gain and understand. But what's, uh, been the best is just finding the right team of people to help solve the issues. That there's so many complex issues when it comes to building, um, that, you know, it, it really does take a team of people, uh, if you really wanna be successful because there's so many moving parts.

So that is how I got into it all, and there's a new aspect that I'm currently learning of. I was so motivated by fear in the beginning and ah, yes. Stress. Mm-hmm. And the last part of my health journey, I don't wanna say the last part, but my sort of current thing I'm tackling now is learning to overcome that stress because those things that once kept me safe are now holding me back from my true healing and potential and growth.

And so it's, it's a, a relearning of how to not be afraid of my environment. Um, and to each others that too, because so many people come very, very scared and I don't blame them. But, um, there's a big, a mental and emotional piece that I think goes along with all of that and is a huge component to just being healthy, well-rounded person.

Oh my

Jessi: gosh. Thank you so much for sharing that. It's, I, there's so much we could talk about. I love. I love your journey. I can relate to so much of it. Uh, and you know, just for those that are listening in that maybe this is somewhat of a new topic, like this is, A deep, deep, intense journey that Ashley just described in a short period of time.

Um, I know personally, and if you've listened to many of my episodes, you've, you know, had a glimpse into what it looks like to walk through these kinds of things. Um, and for those of you that are literally in the situation, you know, in the moments that Ashley just described, like, we send you our love, we get it, we know how hard it is.

Um, and I can agree with you, Ashley, like I, I'm in that same place where I am releasing the fear because there's the ignorance, then there's the awakening, then there's the panic, and then there's the intense, like just being, like you said, literally afraid of everything because you can now, it's like the lenses are off and you can see everything crystal clear and you're aware of how screwed up our world is.

And then from there it's like, well, how do you even. Take a step. How do you have any kind of success without being a bazillionaire that can build your own everything. You know, like how do you even do this? And then you come around full circle and to where you're describing, and that's where I'm currently also pursuing of we can't change everything.

We don't have full control. There's a reason we're here at this time in history, in these bodies, in these locations, in these homes. You were meant to walk through those moldy college buildings for a reason. Like Me too. All my clients that have gone to college, I'm like, all right, we're checking for mycotoxins cuz every dorm, every old home, like it's a guarantee.

Um, but that was for a reason. And trusting that journey and also knowing that going forward is not gonna be perfect. And our bodies are brilliant. Our bodies are so brilliant and they're able to evolve. They're able to survive. So my like mantra for the last year has been reduce. It's all about reduction.

How can we reduce the impact so that we can then move forward with joy? Because it's not about perfectionism, which a lot of us is sensitives, those that love aesthetics, those that are just notice those details and experience our bodies in a very specific way. We're the ones that are most impacted by this, you know, but I always talk about how we're the canaries in the coal mine.

Like there's a reason that we notice it so that we can then turn around and save our fellow humankind. And that's what you're doing right now, Ashley, is you're using your ability to tune into your body, to your atmosphere, to your environment, and the beautiful background of that You have that, like, of course you were put into a family that did this kind of work.

You know, like that created that base for you. Um, like obviously this is your destiny, like this is your focus and your passion. And um, I'm just so grateful that you've leaned into it and that you've embraced it. And I can, I can like sense the health and the vibrance and the radiation. The radiation, the word, um, nevermind the radiants.

Yeah, the radiants that's like coming forward from you. So I, I'm so grateful for the wisdom that you're gonna just like shower us with today. Um, and I can tell it's all experiential, which is the most powerful, I think, personally. Um, So thank you first and foremost for sharing all of that. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Um, and so I think the first question that I really I wanna kind of dive into is I wanna start kind of defining things. So for those of you that are sort of new to this idea of the environment potentially being unhealthy and toxic, um, can you define for us maybe what are like the top five things that we should be looking at?

You know, I can list them, but I'll let you go. And, uh, kind of like, I'm thinking about like air building materials, water damage, bacterial mold, lead, asbestos, E m F, you know, like we could go the gamut. But for you, what would you say are like the top five things that we as sensitive human beings should be kind of conscious of?

Um, And like I said, we're gonna talk about these things and they may be kind of fear instilling, but at the end, like we'll be offering some hope and some practical resources. So hang in with us if you're listening. So go ahead Ashley, what would you say are kind of like the top five things that we should be conscious of with, with the home specifically?

Ashley: So air is so important. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of things that impact our air, right? So using air is sort of the overarching thing to be looking at what impacts our air. Um, we have chemicals from the building materials that we use in our homes. Uh, fragrance is a huge one and I see fragrance in a lot of homes of very healthy people who, um, Might not realize the different chemicals that are in the fragrance.

Uh, like GLAD plugins, um, sprays, feris, different things like that, um, that we're breathing in. Um, same with our cleaning products, the things that we're using and almost everything has fragrance in it in addition to other chemicals and antimicrobials and things that might be in the actual product itself.

Hmm. Um, so that's sort of like the chemical component of it. Um, mold and bacteria from wa, water damage and high humidity is also a really big one. So I think another really important component is, um, Before we even go to purify our air, you know, one really big thing to start getting familiar with doing is monitoring and regulating the humidity within your home because it really does need to sit at a sweet spot.

and I like to say between like 30 and 45% relative humidity. give or take a few depending on who you're talking to. but that's a really nice sweet spot. If it's too dry, it can create health issues. If it's too high, it can create health issues. So you really wanna be monitoring, using a hydrometer, um, making sure that you're in that sweet spot.

And if you're not, why not? You know, we have to be our own detective. Mm-hmm. And understanding what's causing our humidity to raise our humidity can raise from sweating, from breathing, from showering, from cooking, um, from using any type of plumbing that we have on our house. I mean, there's a lot of different things that can happen, especially if there's multiple occupants in the house.

Um, so those are really, really big components. Um, and then once you've got your humidity under control and you have been monitoring it and you have an idea of how to regulate it and keep it in that sweet spot, then um, keeping your home clean and purifying your air is gonna be a really great next step.

Um, so. You know, using an air filter, things like that. But really managing our dust is so critical and it's so easy and we can, we can all do that. Um, because our dust is really just a bunch of toxins. It's a lot of toxins built up to actually create a ball of whatever it looks like. A dust. Yeah. Um, dead skin cells, pet bander, dust mites, uh, different pesticides, all types of things, hair.

 So, um, I think that those are, Really big things to be considering. Um, and then the other one, and I don't know where I'm at with the number one through five. You're fine.

Jessi: Was this meant to be a prompt? Yeah. Go with your own prompt.

Ashley: I don't even know where I'm at anymore. But the other really big thing that I look for, um, that I think is missing in a lot of the sustainability movement, which is where I think building biology takes it a step further in terms of healthy homes is, um, the electromagnetic component of things and really looking at the devices that we use in our homes, how often we're using them, um, and how can we really limit our exposure to them?

Um, do we really need all the devices that we have plugged in? And really just raising that awareness of what we're using and what we actually need. And can we limit or reduce. The amount that is plugged into every single wall into our home and our building wiring. And, you know, EMFs goes, um, there's, this is a, this is a whole conversation of its own.

Yeah. But, you know, it's a very big one. And I found for me that it was a really big missing component in my health journey. Mm-hmm. Um, and once I really started taking my, uh, reducing my exposure seriously, I noticed a really big improvement in my health. I noticed a really big improvement in my joints when I, when I started using a, uh, wired keyboard and wired mouse as opposed to a, um, wireless one.

That was a, that was almost like an overnight improvement for me. Wow. Yeah. And so that kind of was what made me believe, you know, I think you kind of think like, oh, okay, like everyone says all this stuff, but I don't really feel it. And so I don't really believe it. Um, but I, I definitely noticed that my, my joint pain went away and my hands, it was sort of like a chronic wrist pain that I had.

I thought I was getting arthritis. I don't know. It's, yeah. What happens when we get older? You know, all these things happen. It's, so, yeah. That's just what people say. Mm-hmm. So, um, I do think that, looking at the technology and devices that you're using in your home and how can you limit your, uh, your usage of all those things is another really, really big important step in creating a healthy environment.

Jessi: So good. Okay, so we're gonna dive into all of these because they all end up like overlapping anyways, right? When you get into it, you're like, oh crap. Like the mold is getting enhanced by the emf. Okay. Okay. Like, it just all creates this environment, right? Where you're like, oh my gosh. So let's actually start with the, the electromagnetic piece, because there's the wifi piece, there's the, you know, dirty electricity piece.

There's all the different devices that lead to all of that. Um, how would someone begin kind of navigating those worlds? You know, when we're thinking about, let's actually start with dirty electricity, because I feel like that's an area not many people are conscious of. I feel like people are starting to be like, oh yeah, my phone radiates and my computer, but what about like, behind the walls, talk about things you can't see, which are, that's the maddening part about all of this, right?

Is that you're like, I'm going crazy because I don't feel well, but I can't. See something, it's not like right in front of my face. I, you know, it's not as easy to identify. So how do you find out if you're home, whether you're, you own it or you're renting or maybe even an office building, how do you know if there's dirty electricity going on?

Ashley: So, dirty electricity is one that I am not, I would say I'm not an expert on dirty electricity. I know a good enough amount of how to prevent it. Yeah. Um, but I don't have the meters to measure it. Uh, there's a lot of building bi, there's some building biologists who are really dialed into this and that is what they do.

And they are gonna measure and test that. Um, but the biggest thing that I, I think is important to understand about dirty electricity is that any device that we have plugged in that has some sort of transform transformer, Hmm. That's going to change the amount of electricity coming from your building, wearing to a device is going to create some sort of dirty electricity because we're now changing the amount of power coming in.

So a couple of things, I'm just e without going too in depth on dirty electricity itself, a couple of things we can do to prevent or kind of limit the amount we might have. Mm-hmm. Um, is unplugging things when they're not in use. Mm. We want to have as little to nothing plugged in when it's not use. Um, So your coffee pot, your teapot, your air fryer, your toaster, your printer, your tv, all these different things are all devices that are plugged in that are these small devices.

If 240 volts of power comes into these devices, it could blow it up. So it has to transform the power to a smaller amount so that it, the device can work properly. So unplugging these things is really gonna be a huge start. Hmm. Um, the other issue we have is we have, um, l e D lights, which are like per code very common now.

Um, they can all create dirty electricity. Dimmer switches can create dirty electricity, but from what I understand, the dimmer switch is really only creating dirty electricity when it's dimming. Mm-hmm. So, Trying to be conscious about that. Um, there's different whole home lighting systems that can kind of bypass that, and that's what we work on when we do, you know, new build con when I do help people with new build consulting, um, you know, if you want that control of the lighting, there's other things we can do to still create that ambience and that mood Nice.

Without having a dimmer switch. So, um, there's dimmer switches, there's l e lightings, there's different lights that have that produce less dirty electricity. And then you also have things that are coming in from outside. Mm-hmm. So you have solar or even your own house home if you have solar panels, because again, it has a transformer.

So it's transforming that electricity and. It could be coming in from your neighbor's house and it could be coming in from a pool pump, and so you could be getting it from outside as well as generating it yourself from inside your home. So there's different filters and things that you can use.

Um, but again, this is a very in-depth topic that

I'm not doing that work every single day. Mm-hmm. Um, and so when, when we are really focused in and someone is, you know, electro hypersensitive, I'll probably call in somebody who has a deeper knowledge of that onto the team. Yeah. To really go deep onto how can we actually make sure that we're not, um, generating and we are filtering any dirty electricity that's coming into the home.

So there's wonderful, definitely things we can do, but it's still a really dirty electricity out of the four different types of MFS that we're really looking at. In building biology is sort of one of the one that's a little more unknown and the research on it is changing rapidly.

Um, and a colleague actually just put out a whole course on it. So I will be hopefully taking that soon and learning more, but it's just, it's a really challenging topic. Yeah. Other ones do we wanna kind of

Jessi: jump into? Yeah. To keep

Ashley: going? Yeah. Um, the other ones are a little easier to decipher and understand, even though sometimes we still can't feel them, we still can't see them.

Um, so one of the biggest ones we'll start, well there's, so there's four different main ones we look at when we're doing an assessment of a home or if, um, we're building new or renovating and, and ways to prevent. And so dirty electricity we already talked about, there's radio frequencies, which is one that is most common to most people.

That's our cell phones, our computers, our tablets, anything with wifi, Bluetooth, um, anything that says smart feature. Um, um, and then we have magnetic fields, which is gonna come from anything that has like a motor in it. Mm. Um, and these fields drop off with distance. Um, and they actually, if a device is turned off, it's not, the field does not remain, then you have electric fields.

And even if the device is turned off, if it's plugged in, it's still emanates an electric field. So, um, with. All of these different things. It's so, it can be so overwhelming. And I like to, so the, the very, kind of going back to my story earlier when the functional practitioner I was working with, I'll never forget, she told me I had to stop using my laptop and my cell phone.

Um, when I first was on Australia, I was like, what are you talking about? Excuse me. I, I just, I just think it's so funny, uh, from there to now, but, so it's a little bit more than that. But essentially she was right. The biggest thing that we can do is to reduce our exposure to the things we use the most.

Right? And I don't know about you, but for me, my cell phone is the thing that is on me the most. Mm-hmm. That I'm using the most. Um, and it really is gonna be making the most impact. If I go out and I get someone to install all these dirty electricity filters and I paint my whole house in shielding paint and I, you know, hardwire everything in and do all these things, but I'm still using this thing constantly and not, yeah, not on airplane mode, and it's just blasting me in the face with, you know, radiation.

Then what is the point? Yeah, so I always tell people, if you're gonna start anywhere, and if you're totally new to this, to really, really monitor your cell phone use, like how much time are you really spending? Um, if you are using it, can you be hardwired in. Um, so that you can actually be, you know, scrolling, but it's hardwired in so that you're, you can turn the, um, Bluetooth and wifi off on it.

Same thing with your computer. Um, if you can get hardwired ethernet into your computer, but then bring up your messages and connect your phone to your computer so that you can do that while you work. And then put your phone on airplanes that in the other room. Um, or just turn it off completely during the day, but you still have connectivity.

Um, that's gonna be a really, really helpful, uh, way to kind of, so stop. Um, just being more conscious about the amount of radiation that you're getting from your cell phone, something that you use and is so close to our bodies every single

Jessi: day. Right. That's such a good tip. And that, that's the thing is cell phones are so, they're so darn convenient and they're that size where you can put it in your pocket, you can put it in your, your day bag, you can bring it with you everywhere it fits in your hand.

And so it just, it sticks to you. And like you said, distance is everything. Um, so that's such good advice. Something you said that caught my attention. When you say wiring in your phone, can you describe that a little bit? Because I don't actually know too many people that do that. So you can you kind of tell us how you do that?

Yeah.

Ashley: So, um, so one way you can easily do it, and I'll just describe my current setup is I have my router here, um, below my desk. Um, it's turned off, so there's a button on it that allows me to turn the router on and off. Um, but it's connected to an ethernet cable. Um, an ethernet cable. Looks like a phone, a phone jack, you know?

Yeah. When you're looking at the house and you see the little port that has the ethernet jack, that's what the ethernet cable looks like. That plugs into the back of your router. And then from there, uh, you can get a little device that has, um, I wanna say it's the lightning jack on one end and then an ethernet port on the other end.

So you can have it, you can have your router here, and I have one summer. Over here, but they don't know where it's at. That's okay. But it's, you can actually, uh, plug that into your phone. You can't make phone calls that way. Um, but you can scroll, you can still receive, you know, iMessage if you have an, an iPhone.

I'm not too familiar on the, um, Android, but yeah. You know, that will allow you to plug it in,

Jessi: so that was a thing too. You can keep your, your router, your modem turned off and it's still receiving the information through the ethernet cord. I didn't realize that. I thought you had to have it on in order for anything to work.

Ashley: No, I mean once it's plugged into the ethernet cable, um, the ethernet port, wherever it's hooked up at. Yeah, it can still, um, you know, cause my router's turned off. Right now I'm hardwired in, my computer is hardwired in. Right. Um, I ever, I try to make, um, I put all my messages and everything on my computer so that I can just have my phone off.

Awesome. Uh, people do complain that they can't ever get ahold of me, so I should probably start there. No, you

Jessi: just train them. You leave, you have a voicemail that says, I don't receive calls if you need to reach me. Text. Like, it's that simple. I know My husband uh, fought me on that for a while. Cause I started getting really intense and I was like, my phone's on airplane mode all day.

And he's like, what if an emergency happens? I'm like, you're, you can figure it out. Like, do you actually need me for. Yeah. It's like, excuse me. No. So I, I backed off that intensity, but, uh, texting, being able to have iMessage is so great. It's so easy. And that is one way then people can, and I feel like for me, when I do that, I actually get the iMessages faster than it comes even on, on my phone.

So it's it's effective. It works. Yeah. Yeah. And

Ashley: when I'm having calls with people, people always drop off their Internet's unstable. Yeah. And in my mind, I'm just like, I don't know why we don't do, do the standard. Like, I never have an issue with connection. Um, and you know, Same thing with like our TVs too.

We're gonna get all those hardwired in as well because Yeah. Sometimes. Well, and I will admit, I don't, I do the best I can. Yeah. And this is what I would tell anyone to do. You know, just because I do this work doesn't mean I never use my phone. Doesn't mean I never use wifi Right. At five or 6:00 PM usually, or WiFi's off.

Cause I'm sitting right next to my router. Mm-hmm. Um, and whenever I am working, my partner knows like it's off. Like I'm not turning it on cause I'm right next to it. Yeah. Um, but you know, afterwards we turn on the wifi and we put Netflix on or something at night. Yeah. You know, once in a while. So it's like, you know, to get that hardwired in would take it in ne one step further and would be better.

But we don't currently have that. And that's just, you know, you just have to do the best that you can.

Jessi: That's a perfect thing. I know, I was gonna ask cuz there's like, there's always the difference between when it comes to a home, when you're renting a home, when you own a home, when you're building a new home.

Like those are like the three things. And like when you're renting, you don't have as much control. So it's, it's a really just about reduction and, you know, what can you do when you own a home? There's a bit more, but sometimes it's like the home has been established. Like it's tough to go in and like wire the entire house.

Like I, I, I've looked into that. Yeah. Um, it's a lot of work. I mean, if you're doing a big renovation on the home and you're opening up walls and stuff like that, it's like an, it's an easy add-on. But if you're not doing that, it's a big project, but a new construction, which is the dream for any sensitive person, it's like, yeah,

Ashley: yes, God give

Jessi: me the ability to build a home exactly the way I'd want it with all of the health and everything.

 Uh, like that's where you go in, right? And you do that extra step of like wiring literally everything. Like we've, I think my husband and I talked about this cuz we've. We've looked at all the options, but like in every room, having a jack where you can, so if you have your phones, it's like everywhere you go you can plug your phone into the ethernet and be able to use it.

So it's still convenient. Um, and then you're only on wifi when you're outside of the home, which is like, never for me, cuz I'm an introvert, so. Exactly. But that's, that's such, you know, it's, it's that progression. Right. And speaking about health, like I always describe this with clients when it comes to any sort of change, whether it's food or supplements or working out, or even just mindset.

Like you take baby steps and you do what is available and what's in your capacity. Like, you don't try to go for gold, you know, when you're in the bronze pool, like you just, you gently work up and there's seasons too, like depending on where you are. Like, are you a new mama? You know, like, focus on your kiddo.

You know, just don't. Dear God, don't put your cell phone near their head. You know, like, don't have your cell phone on you with the baby. But other than that, relax, you know, like there's like, wouldn't you say coming to that full circle moment of the more stressed we are, the more we're in that state of, I call it the alarm mode, but the fight or flight, you know, in that sympathetic mode.

The more all of these toxins, whether it's you know, radiation or molds or endotoxins from bacteria, or you name it, are gonna affect us because we're more vulnerable when we're in that state. We're not able to, to process it. And cuz really toxicity is all about clearance, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that was a big moment for me.

I didn't realize radiation was a toxin. I just thought it was like, oh, it's like something that. I didn't really get it. It wasn't until someone explained to me that the reason that it's a problem is that when it enters your body, it can't get out. Like the body can't translate it. And so it's stuck in your being and it becomes a toxin and it just goes nuts on your cells.

So usually general terminology, uh, and so if you're relaxed, if you're calm, it's actually able to clear a little bit more effectively. And so it's, that's why the calm, happy people like ignorance sometimes is bliss because you're not stressed about it. But if you're like me and you found out about 5G and you're driving past towers and every time you're flinching and freaking out and your entire body's contracted, I'm getting impacted more than the person that doesn't even know what 5G is, doesn't even know what that tower is, you know?

So it is a balance, right, of being able to like have the knowledge but not let it take over.

Ashley: Oh man. And I just, I know it, it really is. And I will tell you it has it there. I've been in a place in my life where it took over. Yeah. I mean, I was like, we have to move. Oh my gosh, we, we gotta get outta here.

Like it's, it's pan. You get in a full panic mode and it's just like, at that point, nothing will ever be perfect. And this is what I tell people all the time, we could be designing and putting together the most perfect, quintessential perfect, did everything right home. But if you don't feel safe in your body, you're never gonna feel safe in your home.

Jessi: Right. You'll always find something. Mm-hmm.

Ashley: And, um, I'm working on trying to figure out how to. Uh, create some new offerings around this for people who are looking for new homes. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I do a little bit of work where I help people who are trying to find healthy home and sort of find, um, the good bones to start with something nice.

Yeah. Um, but, uh, that process is really overwhelming and a lot of people are in big time fear state at that point in their journey, and so, uh, there will be some things coming, I think, where we, we kind of mix that emotional component, um, that energetic component into, into finding, um, helping people because you'll just, you'll never feel safe if you don't feel safe in your body first.

Jessi: Yeah. I can vouch for that. We've, this is the home I'm in right now. We just moved into, and it's our fourth in two years. Because of having to leave out of, first it was asbestos and molds, and then we bought a home and I learned so much. We bought a, an old home and I thought I had done well, but it had a flat roof.

And now I know to never do anything with the flat roof, but there was a lot of unseen water damage in the roof, um, in other areas. Uh, and I got super sick. So we left and then moved into another place that ended up having four different leaks within a matter of months, like, and so we moved again. So I like, I know that journey of just feeling un unsafe, feeling unsettled.

Um, and there's so much around that too, right? It's not just you, it's like your relationships. It's, uh, how, how that impacts your work and your family and, and all sorts of things. Because stability is so key to safety a lot of times, and especially for us that are sensitive, like we're already overwhelmed naturally, easily.

Yeah. So to constantly have your environment changing, like I can say oftentimes, you know, from a health practitioner perspective, we always tell our clients, move, get out. Mm-hmm. Um, but I would say that's not always true, like from a realistic perspective of sometimes it's not possible. So let's talk about that a little bit.

When someone is in an environment, maybe they're renting or they just bought a home and there's like, Like no budget for shifting. Right. That's usually what happens. They're like, oh crap, like we just squeaked into this home and now we're finding that we need to do like 50 grand worth of like remediation or, um, all the things, you know?

Mm-hmm. What are some things that people can do? Um, let's talk about water damages. We've talked about, uh, you know, radiation in general, but like if they find out their home has molds and, um, some bacteria growth as well, like endotoxins and mycotoxins, how do they find a balance between panicking and leaving and perhaps making that home viable?

Hmm. And I know that's probably individual, but Yeah. Do you have some tips for someone that's like, I can't get outta here, but I understand that this is impacting my health. Are there some things that I could do to kind of Yeah. Reduce the impact for myself and potentially a family? Yeah,

Ashley: I think some of the biggest things is really well, it goes a couple of ways.

So keeping your home as clean as possible. Hmm. And maybe you're not the one doing that cleaning, which is gonna be really hard if someone doesn't have a budget. Hmm. Um, because mold spores are gonna live in our dust, um, purifying our air, making sure it's really, really clean. And if, again, if you don't have a budget, looking at HEPA filters, tape to box, uh, regular box fans.

Mm-hmm. Um, but again, this is also gonna be circulating dusts, picking things up and moving things through the air. Um, really getting outside as much as possible. I think it really depends on what the problem is. Right. Um, I wanna just jump back just right before that though, because. For anybody who is looking to buy a new home.

Mm. I always say, whatever your budget is for that home, take 50 K off. Yeah. And I'm dead. And I'm dead serious. Yeah. Because there's gonna be something you're gonna have to fix. And I, I set that expectation, uh, very early because if it's not something you have to fix now, it's maybe something you're gonna have to fix later.

So hard. Um, and I don't think enough times we are setting aside that money to know that we have to have money for unforeseen events. I know. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't think about that. I just said, well, this is how much I can pay. Uh, this is what I can afford for our mortgage, so this is what my, and this is what I can get approved for.

So this is, this is my budget. Um, but I think that I. and I tell this to everyone I work with who's looking for a new home, just be prepared because there's always gonna be something if you have, if you're not the one putting it together, there's likely going to be something. So I really think that anyone who's listening to this and wants to pursue finding a healthier home or wants, um, or maybe you're in the midst of it and you're looking to buy a home, just know that with anything out there, and this is not meant to scare, but just know that there's always gonna be improvements that need to be made in order to bring it up to health, whether it's ventilation, um, which I find is a really big one, especially in kitchens.

Um, the kitchen ventilation oftentimes isn't even working or doesn't go outside, or the bathroom ventilation goes up into the attic. And so now we're pulling moisture into the attic. It's not actually going into the, out of the, uh, out of the home. Oh gosh. Um, there's, you know, there's gonna be something. So just.

Don't stress about it, but just be prepared. Just know, okay, I've got this money set aside. We're gonna, um, have this, we're, we're gonna, we know we're gonna make improvements. This is so much easier said than done in today's market, by the way.

Jessi: Uh, but you know what, having that knowledge though is so big.

Like, I, you and I have had to learn that the hard way. You know, like I, I literally bought a home by the skin of my teeth and then was like, oh crap. Like I need to, we threw 10 grand basically into testing the home and then found out we needed to do like 80 grand worth of remediation if we wanted to do it properly.

Um, plus. Renovating because you just kind of had to alongside it. And if I had known that coming in, I probably wouldn't have bought this home. I would've gone another route, you know? But at the same time, like I learned so much from this experience, I will never forget. Yeah. And the next home that we buy is gonna be so much better because of it.

So whether you learn through, uh, like us through experience or you learn from this podcast, um, you know you're gonna win. It's, and I think what's on the flip side, yes. It's like frustrating and we'll all go through that, that anger of like, why is our society like this? Why are homes built like this? Why don't people care anymore?

You know, why are homes not breathable and so toxic and built so slap, sticky, you know, with no care for the health of the, the homeowner. Um, it's all about, yeah, just costs and speed now, but. On the flip side of that, once you know, you know, and you can look for it. And if you're expecting it and choose not to be negative about it, it's like any home then is kind of like an opportunity.

Um, and I think it's just coming out of that mindset of like, my home will automatically be safe. That kind of expectation is the problem because if we have that and we stay with in that mindset, we're always gonna be frustrated. But if we just see that, oh, it's just the current environment we're in every building, every home has a problem.

So really it just becomes, uh, a game. Of find the problem. Yes. Yeah. And how many problems? Oh, cool. This one only has one problem, and I'm expecting that it'll probably be two that I didn't know about. So, okay. We're good, you know? Mm-hmm. This home has 20 problems. We're not going there, you know? Yes. So it's just, it can become more playful, can become more hopeful.

And I think the goal is having someone like you on, on your team to be able to be that extra, those extra set of eyes and also the wisdom. Like even you talking about like, I'm not an expert in dirty electricity. Yeah. But you just dumped a bunch of knowledge on us that we don't know. And you have direct contacts to people that do.

Right. Whereas the average home buyer has no idea about any of this stuff, will find out later when they're sick or their kid got cancer, or you know, something horrific, right? Because they just didn't know and. Which is devastating and no one wants to be in that situation. But, um, once you gain the knowledge, you know, there are actions that can be taken and it can be a positive experience.

You know, like I'm so grateful for what I went through, even though I would never wanna do it again. And that's why I'm talking about this. Like, I don't want anyone to have to go through what I went through. Yeah. But at the same time, I have loads of knowledge now and the future is brighter because of it.

Right. And you also, I think, come to realize your values. So a little rabbit trail for us, like aesthetics are so important to us as sensitives. Like we just, mm. And so many of my client, well all my clients are sensitives now, like, I think the battle comes down to like, I just purchased a home, or I just rented a new home or whatever.

I wanna spend my budget on interior design. I wanna buy that beautiful, like six penny sofa and I wanna like have my, my gorgeous curtains and that beautiful rug. And like all these things just create that ambiance cuz that's what gives us life. Mm-hmm. And so when we find out we have to spend all of that money on like mold remediation, it's so soul crushing, right?

Mm-hmm. And so it's tough. It's tough, but I think at the end of the day, like recognizing that our health has to come first. Mm-hmm. Because your home can be gorgeous, but it can make you so sick and then you're not able to even enjoy that. You know? So you've found this beautiful marriage of the two of like, how can we do both?

That's what I see you as. Like, how can we do both? And that's the dream. So, oh,

Ashley: I just, there's just, I also just wish that the world of non-toxic was. Prettier sometimes. Oh my

Jessi: gosh.

Ashley: Yeah.

Jessi: Yes. Yeah. We'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah.

Ashley: Yeah. But I wanted to jump back to what you were saying about um, like as we're looking at homes, I think I, you know, you can go out and find a lot of checklists of, these are the things you can't have in your home if you're looking for a new home.

Right. Uhuh, I'm sorry. No, it's unrealistic. Like they don't, you can't, like, I, that is not gonna work for people. I have put together a list and it's more of, okay, I want you to print this out at each home that you look at, put the address and let's, let's just observe. Yeah. We are just observers. I want you to use this as an, as a place to be your own detective.

To observe the home, to notice what it has and what it doesn't have and where what you're finding, and I'm teaching you how to use the tools to do this yourself before you bring in, you know, so that you can have, you can narrow things down on your own before you bring in a qualified inspector. Um, but, you know, and then it's like, okay, well then let's all let, let's look together at these five properties and let's weigh the pros and cons together.

Mm-hmm. And that's where I will help you really say, okay, well, I don't know. You know, you have, there's like absolutely no ventilation in this home. This is a huge mechanical cost. Like this is gonna cost you 30 k or whatever. Versus, you know, maybe you have, um, some issue with the bathroom or something. I don't know.

You know, there's just different things where you're gonna weigh, like, do you have a structural issue and a mechanical issue versus like there's, you know, uh, there was a leak under the sink, right? There's different levels, I think of, um, weighing those pros and cons for people and so that they can then say, okay, well do I have the money to, um, invest in.

This problem. Mm-hmm. Because there's gonna be something with every home, and it's about like, kind of coming up with a risk assessment at that point, because yeah, you can't find a house that just doesn't have, you know, uh, not a flat roof and Yeah. Uh, all these different things that are just crazy. Um, and then it becomes really stressful and then people feel really upset that they can't, they're, they're not finding anything.

And yeah. Um, it's a really challenging process. It's, that's probably the hardest. Mm-hmm. Um, helping people find new homes and just the vetting process of that. Um mm-hmm. Whereas it becomes a lot easier when you can just do everything you want with a

Jessi: home. Oh, custom homes are the best. Yeah. And, and I think, you know, it's, like I said, it's the dream for like every sensitive to have the opportunity to do that.

And, um, you know, from the ground up, choosing beautiful wood and knowing that it's, you know, Yeah, just there's so, I mean, there's so many things, right, of like, I mean, when we were thinking about basically doing that, we found out that we would have to basically tear our house down because it was just so bad.

Oh my gosh. Um, so, you know, we chose to go a different route that was more viable, but it's, I've, you know, looked into that down to even, like when you're building a home, like the season that you're building it in, are you building it in a wet season? Like, You don't want any of that? What? Like there's so many details that even building custom home, although it's ideal, it's a really gnarly process if you're really going for it.

Uh, and my husband and I have always joked like, that would be such a rad job to be like, An all natural builder where you just like everything like you do at old school, you know, I'm sure you've looked at people that have done that, you know, using the hay and using the plaster and really going for it.

Um, but doing it in a way that's beautiful, that's not just like, oh, okay, yeah, it's healthy, but I wouldn't wanna live there. You know? Yeah. It's really not that attractive. Uh, but building, like building homes like they used to be built where they can breathe and so that humidity you talked about is just naturally regulated by the walls and there's, it's cool in the summer and warm in the winter and um, you know, there's just a home microbiome that is balanced and mm-hmm.

So if there is mold, it's not toxic. Black mold from water damage, it's natural healthy that your body can, your immune system can be in relationship with. And you know, there's so many different things that are so different now in our modern world than like, back in the day I used to always think. Why am I so sensitive to mold?

Like I'm, my biggest heritage is French. I'm like French, eat mold. Like what is going on? Like my jeans should be able to handle this. They lived in castles, covered in mold, like what is going on? And when I learned that it's quite different, like I almost consider it like healthy natural mold spores.

Mm-hmm. You could obviously have an allergy to those, you know, but, um, mycotoxins are those toxins that are released by the mold, which we've talked about in other episodes, but like, that's different like water damage from modern buildings that create this, these kind of newer strains of mold that are so gnarly.

Like that's what we're talking about. Right. It's, yeah. And I think people. When there is that lack of knowledge, and honestly, this includes most of the mold industry, by the way, for those that are listening, most remediators have no concept of the true toxicity of molds. They're not properly trained, it's not putting them down, but they're just not properly trained.

And so, um, that knowledge out of understanding Okay. Healthy mold that I see on like, the outside that's like, we, like aesthetically like, oh, it's so pretty. It's a multi, you know, stonewall versus like mold in your wall from water damage is like two very different worlds. So there's so much to understanding the nuances of all of it, but I think at the end of the day, understanding that your health needs to come first, even above aesthetics.

Um, yeah. But at the same time, we don't wanna go the other extreme where we're living in this barren wasteland. Yeah. Because it's, it's so, um, purified. It's so, Clinical almost in a way where like all of the, the natural life has been eradicated. Like we don't want that either. It's a balance, right? Of finding, yeah, finding that, uh, like for example, this new space that I'm in, that we moved into, I happen to know that there's a little bit of water damage in my bathroom, like a little leak out into the wall.

I can see the bulge. I know it's there. We sealed it up. We have beautiful air filters going on, but it's the only thing in this whole space, as opposed to the previous home I was in that had multiple leaks, I could go on for hours about everything that was going on in that house. And so for me, it's like I've come to that place of knowing that every home I move into will have something and I'm renting, so we're not gonna do anything about it.

But if I did own the home, I'd probably address it, but it's one little thing and my immune system can handle that. Yeah. Um, and so it's just believing in the, the strength of our body. Um, but like what you went through, right? Years of, like, you didn't arrive at that point of losing, you know, memory and all of that from one exposure.

It was from numerous exposures over the years. So I think people don't understand that, that it's like when I work with people and help them clear mycotoxins and mold, they've, we track back and they've been exposed probably from childhood. So it's just the, the addition of layer upon layer upon layer that brings them to that point of sickness.

So once you clear your body and you're healthy, your body can handle the occasional exposure, even if it is regular, you know? So I think that's important to understand too, right? Yeah. you, uh, Go into an office or someone else's home and you know, you're like, oh dear, I can smell this.

Ashley: Yeah. It's, it's challenging because I don't, I don't feel the way that I used to feel, and I think that is where I built up the nervous system capacity. Mm. Um, that I think has really, really helped feeling safe, knowing my body can handle, knowing that just because I'm being exposed doesn't mean my body can't get rid of it.

Um, I think, but there are, you know, so even when I smell it, I'll see it. I'll, I usually say something cause I'm like, oh, that, that's small. No, you can't hide that. Yeah. Yeah. But, I don't usually feel that bad anymore. On occasion, I'll be somewhere where I'm like, I can't, I, I can't be here. Um, I was staying with a friend, uh, this summer who, uh, bought a house, uh, a humid climate.

Hmm. They were so excited about it. Um, I, I couldn't, I couldn't stay there. I had to go, I had to go get a hotel. Um, so there's situations like that where I know I need to leave, um, because I just can't, I can't fathom like spending three nights, but if I know I'm gonna be eating somewhere and I'm not gonna be there for long, I just let myself know, like, Hey, we're not gonna be here for that long.

Like the beauty about our homes, for the most part is that we do have the ability to control. Our own environment. We have the ability to control the food we eat and what we consume, um, and how we take care of our bodies, but we can't control everything else that's outside of our, our own home, right?

So I try to just know that I'm doing the best that I can in my own home, and then when I'm outside, it's okay. Because it happens, happens. Yeah. It happens. You there, you have to just come to some acceptance with that, I think. Mm-hmm. And it can be really, really hard and it can take a really long time to get to that place and Yeah.

You know, and depending on what kind of health issues you have, you know, I had never been del uh, diagnosed with mass cell activation or, um, you know, I, I don't have the H l a Dr. Gene. You know, there's things that make it more challenging for people. And so my experience is totally different and everyone's experience is gonna be totally different.

if you're not necessarily experiencing symptoms now, it's just always a good idea to be aware of your environment in a way so that you don't end up experiencing those symptoms down the road because it can happen to anyone, whether you have a predisposition or not. Mm-hmm.

So, um, It's, it's such a delicate dance and it, everything plays a role. The food that we're eating, um, our environment, our nervous system, and our emotional health and, and taking care of our trauma and looking at maybe what's keeping us sick. Yeah. Um, I had learned from, mind body spirit release, which is an emotional technique to help you release trauma.

that I wanted to be sick because I had a deep inherited trauma, that no one would ever love me for who I am, because, and that maybe being sick was a way for me to feel that people loved me, you know? And it's not something that I was conscious about, but wow. When I heard that, I thought, wow. And then you kind of look at your childhood and you look at the things in your life and you start to really dig into those shadow pieces and, what could be holding you back from actually truly wanting to heal and believing you can heal.

And so there, there's a huge component to that as well. And so our environment is a huge piece. We have to avoid those toxins for sure, but we also have to, once we are sick and, um, are experiencing symptoms and we feel like we can't figure out what's going on, we also have to try to dig a little bit deeper than just the symptoms themselves and what could be holding us back.

So, boom.

Jessi: Yeah, exactly. Thank you for completing that circle. Mm-hmm. That's holistic healing, right? It's not just one piece. We're such layered beings. And you can eat the perfect food for your body. You can have the perfect supplements. Know exactly how to. Sauna properly and you know, do all the clearing acts, um, but be holding on to deep wounds of grief or rejection or abandonment, and that is the block.

That will hold those toxins in, right? Mm-hmm. The body, we as beings, can block and hold onto things through so many different means. Mm-hmm. So it is so important to look at all the layers and to understand that, that we are complex and beautiful in that way. Um, but yeah, just like when we're looking at the home, we're talking about all the different layers of a home, right?

From the wood that it's built with to the air quality, to the electricity, to the devices we place in the home to the furniture we choose. The wall decor, the paint. Uh, we're the same way. You know, we are spiritual, physical, mental, emotional, and we have to look at all those layers as we choose to heal too.

And, um, our. Our perspective on the world is, is so shaped by our subconscious, right? What is it? 90. It keeps increasing. Every time I read, I'm like, now we're at like, 95% of who we are is subconscious. I'm like, oh my gosh. Wow. Wow. It's just, it's huge. And so there's so much that we're doing that we're not even conscious, we're not aware, we're not presently aware of, you know, and, uh, it's so important for us to step into that space and understand that we're not just carrying our experiences, we're carrying generations of experiences, right?

Mm-hmm. We've got generational trauma. We've got, um, what we experienced in the womb as newborns, you know, and those first eight years are so impactful and that they made you who you are today. So it's. It's so important to think about all those things, even as we talk about, you know, air filters and Yeah.

Plugging in your phone and stuff like that. It's all on the same level. It really is. Yeah. It really is. So it's just wherever you are in your season, you know, whatever's coming forward, lean into that. Like if you're in a season right now of leaning into the energetic and the spiritual realm, like, it may not be time to look at your home, but if this is resonating what we're talking about, you know, um, and maybe you've been living in this for a long time.

Don't forget about the spiritual, like you shared. Don't forget about the energetic, don't forget about those, uh, more ethereal aspects as well. The physical Yeah. And the, the invisible are all wrapped up together. Mm-hmm. Which is I think, oh my gosh. Which interesting about like electro radiation and even mycotoxins and endotoxins.

Since we can't see those things, they almost have a spiritual. Like element to them, don't you think? Mm-hmm. Yes. Because it's so much of a belief factor. Like people are like, I don't believe in that. I don't believe that. That's true. And you're like, I'm not trying to like convince you of a religion here, but at the same time it's like, it kind of is on the same plane because it is invisible to the naked eye, you know?

Oh my

Ashley: gosh, yes. You're so right. It's like, oh, oh my gosh. Yeah, because it's like at the, especially when you're finding out about this, it's like you're trying to convince people to believe Yeah. Uhhuh and it, it really is. Wow. Yeah. I never really thought of it that way, but you're totally right. Oh my gosh.

Jessi: Oh, it's, it's tricky. Yeah. The work you do is challenging because you are. Yeah, you're really working almost within the spiritual realms in that way. So I'm so grateful for all that you do. I know I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. Um, as far as like those that are listening specifics, like, I cannot recommend Ashley's Instagram more, like get plugged in with her because I feel like every day you're giving helpful resources, like what air filter should you use?

You have all these incredible tips of how to clean, of how to, you know, basically do all the things that you're embodying and representing. So, I know we didn't get into too many of the nitty gritty, but I think that's because it's already there. Like it's already accessible. So, um, you know, we're going deeper on this episode, but if you're kind of like, Hey, I want, like those tools, they're there on your Instagram.

So tell us a little bit more about how people can connect with you and how they can learn from you and ideally work with you too. Yeah,

Ashley: so Instagram, obviously I share all types of random stuff, not necessarily all pertaining to how you work with me specifically, but just living a healthy lifestyle. I like to share that.

And I think because I'm in such a season of the spirituality and um, trying to open up and reconnect and, and um, open up some of those blocks that I've been having on my own healing journey, you're gonna be getting a lot more of that. Um, which I think was why Awakening Spaces was born in originally, cause I was always drawn to that side of things.

Um, So, yeah, Instagram. I have a newsletter that goes out once a month called The Monthly Awaken, where we really go deep into, uh, either questions someone has asked or just, uh, really I try to make it really, really value packed. So if that's something you're interested in, you can sign up using the link in my bio on the Instagram.

Um, and then, yeah, if I work with people in a few different ways, I do renovation consulting and new build consulting. Um, so depending on where you are in your journey, we look at how you can build back your home or build your home from the ground up. Um, looking at everything from the site that you're, that you're building on, on the orientation of your home, um, oh my gosh, it is such a deep dive into all things healthy home.

And there's just so many factors that create a healthy environment. So, uh, we support you through all five phases of design, um, until you walk into your door. And, um, I'm working on a, a product right now called the Awakened Homeowner, which is gonna be sort of for anyone who wants to just have a healthy home no matter where you are in your journey.

It's gonna be a combination of how to videos, it's checklists, it's, you know, why uh, healthy homes are important and how to use the different tools. And that's gonna be coming out, um, hopefully in the next couple of months. So you'll be able to search something in a search engine and find the video that you're looking for.

So this will be a really easy way to, um, just keep your home healthy, um, learn how to prevent things in your home. Just become an awakened homeowner. So if you're interested in connecting, um, always feel free to reach out on Instagram and chat. I love making new friends there, so,

Jessi: yeah. Uh, that's so needed, Ashley.

Like, amazing. I'm so excited. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna be using that. I'm gonna send all of my clients because that's, it's so needed and it's such an overwhelming space. So to have your wisdom, to have you as a guide is gonna be so huge. Oh my gosh. Thank you for creating that. I can only imagine how much work is going into this project.

Ashley: Oh, it's, it, it's been a journey, but it's been fun. It was supposed to come out last year, but I, I lost my father and it tur derailed everything and it is totally okay because it's happening in divine timing. So

Jessi: yeah. That's always how it works. Mm-hmm. It's always how it works. Hmm. Yeah. And there's always something that you need to experience sometimes before you put something out.

Yeah. So,

Ashley: yeah, definitely.

Jessi: I have one final question for you that I ask all of my guests, and it's kinda off the wall, but it's just fun. Okay. So if you were a plant, any kind of natural element, like it can be a tree, a flower, an herb, what would capture your essence? What would you be? Oh,

Ashley: um, I would probably be a San Pedro cactus.

Ooh. I love them. They're resilience. They're, you know, they're just, they're simple, but they're beautiful. I just love them.

Jessi: I love that San Pedro Cactus beautiful. It's like, do you know what that looks like? I have a vision in my mind, but I'm questioning if it's accurate. It's just like your

Ashley: standard cactus that is just like one cactus has four ridges on the side.

It's just, I love it. I love everything desert.

Jessi: That's good. That's actually really good for like a healthy home. Dry,

Ashley: dry

Jessi: climate. Very dry climate. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that. That's perfect. I can see that even in like your design behind you in your home, like those colors and everything. I'm like, okay.

Yeah. I can see the, the sandy neutrals and the, the pop of green and that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's, I love it. That's my favorite. Well, Ashley, thank you for bringing beauty back into non-toxic living. Like, honestly, it's been so needed. My little soul has been withering away in those spaces, so thank you.

When I found you, I was like, oh, praise God. Like this is exactly what's needed. Like finally someone that's doing it well, like anyone that's listening, you go to your website and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, she knows she's got it. Like this is, so this makes me so happy. Even just like scroll through your website cuz it's just so beautiful and clean.

And Thank you. And yours too.

Ashley: I actually love it.

Jessi: Oh, thank you. Yeah. You know, send to the souls, just enjoying each other's

Ashley: stuff. Love it.

Jessi: Love it. Oh my gosh, Ashley. Well is there any final thing that you would like to leave our listeners with, um, as we close out here today? Ah,

Ashley: just that there's so many facets to our health, but.

We can't forget to just what life is all about, which is joy and happiness, and life is meant to be lived. So if you're on the health journey and you feel like you're just giving things up and going through the struggle, just know that it's just the season that you're in to build capacity in your body, to get you back to that joy that you are meant to have and you deserve.

And it's all gonna be okay, and it really is.

Jessi: So. Amen. It'll come. It'll come. It'll come back. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's, that's a beautiful reminder. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Yeah. Aw, Ashley, it's been a joy. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. Thank

Ashley: you so much for having this platform for us to chat about this.

Jessi: wonderful. Of course. My pleasure.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

Connect with Ashley Spanovich

• @awakeningspaces

• Awakeningspaces.com

---

Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi

Episode 35: The Story of Triumphant Recovery From Narcissistic Abuse With Empath Raven Scott

Conversation

Episode 35 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jessi Michel Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi: Hello, my sensitive friends and welcome back to It's so good to have you here. I have an incredible guest for you today. She is really an expert on the art of navigating life as an empath, and she has incredible experience with recovering and healing from a narcissistic relationship and all that comes with that.

She's an author, she's a speaker, she's a spiritual mentor, and she's someone that I'm really excited to bring on this podcast to talk about narcissism and, and that paired with empathy, uh, it's not something we've really discussed on this podcast yet, and I know. Especially in the last few years, it's really come forward as a big topic of discussion.

 Uh, we mentioned this a little bit in the conversation, but I, I personally believe that the term of narcissism has been used a little bit too broadly, and I've seen it happen time and time again where we just think anyone that was. You know, not who we wanted them to be. We just are labeling them as a narcissist.

 And there is a clinical definition for it that I think should be honored. And there's also the process of healing and, you know, coming through and realizing whether someone really is a narcissist or if there's perhaps just some emotional stunting or just an overall inability to meet you at your depth, um, or your.

Journey. So I am really excited to have Raven Scott on to discuss all of these topics and more her and I get in and really discuss some of the nitty gritty of what it's like to not only be an empaths. And to have experience with, you know, those that are either egotistical and or have the diagnosis or the clinical expression of narcissism.

And then even navigating relationships and codependency, we get into so much goodness here. So this is, I. A very rich podcast episode. I highly recommend taking notes. If you're that type of person or even listening back a few times, um, you'll really, really appreciate what Raven has to say. She has walked through the fire herself, a fellow six two in human design.

She had to send her first 30 ish years, uh, really going through the gamut like me, and now she is really stepping into the roof, onto the roof and sharing her objective and beautiful wise perspective. So I hope that you enjoy this as much as I did. Let's step in and get talking with Raven.

 Raven. It is so good to have you on the podcast. I am honestly, have been thinking about this conversation all week, so I'm really excited

Raven: to get rolling. Thank you for having me. It's so good to be

Jessi: here. Ugh. And we just discovered that we're both actually in California. I realized you were just up the road for me, so I love that.

I feel like we're on the same plane right now. The same sun is shining

Raven: on us. It is, it is. It's so nice. It's a bit dry and windy here. Up a little bit more north, but It's been so wet. Which we need the wet uhhuh, but it, it's like I'm looking at my yard.

We need to dry out and then have rain again dry out. Like stop just down pouring all this water on

Jessi: us. I know as poor Californians, we suffer. Our weather is, you know,

Raven: and we're not complaining, so I'm

Jessi: not gonna say no, we're not complaining, we're just being particular.

Raven: Yes. Just feeling the energies of what needs to happen. Yeah,

Jessi: exactly. Oh, Raven, so I have so many wonderful questions for you. You are such a woman of wisdom, and I wanna really glean from you what we can in this time.

So right off the bat, I want to have you kind of defined for us, since you are an expert in this area, both experientially and now even helping others, how do you define an empath and how do you define a

Raven: narcissist? Hmm. I love that question. Because everyone always just asks about the narcissists, but I think it's important to ask about the empath.

Mm-hmm. I think the, the empath, as you shared on my podcast, is highly sensitive people. And I think we all are empaths. I think we're all born empaths. And the empath is like a connection to our soul. Like it's a connection to the energies and to divine. And there can be an unhealthy balance of empathy just as there can be an unhealthy balance of ego.

And this is so funny that this is coming up and you asked me because, uh, yesterday I recorded an episode for a few weeks out for my podcast about narcissist and echo and Mm. Um, my podcast is called Empath and the Narcissist. So I was like, this is like the main theme of everything, right? So yeah, the empath is that who is highly sensitive, but if they're caught in this unhealthy.

Part of their empathy where they're absorbing everything. They're absorbing everyone's pain. They're trying to fix everything. They're, they're ignoring their trauma and not healing and transmuting it. Right? All the, things we all have to work on as humans. Right. I think that's why we're all empaths.

Then you, start to lose yourself, and that's exactly what happens when you're in a relationship with a narcissist, because a narcissist is the opposite. In a sense, they're also empaths right? They're also born empaths but their life path went a different direction. Maybe they weren't conditioned to be as caring and empathic to others.

Maybe they weren't even taught to be nice to others. This is all about just survival, almost like throwing them out to the wolves. Like there are some people who experience life like that and that can turn out to be the path where they take that over ego and a narcissist by definition, and N P D diagnosed is.

Overly exaggerated sense of self than ego, uh, grandiose mindset. They lack empathy for others. And they only, you look caveat, they only turn on the empathy when they want something. So it's a, it's a transactional exchange. It's not a true empathic, I care about you. I feel your soul. I see you, I want you to be happy.

And well, like an empath would do. They're like, oh, I need this, so let me turn on my empathy talent here. Mm-hmm. Because we all develop that. Mm-hmm. And they use it for their own selfish receiving. Yeah. So it's so good. Yeah. It's interesting. And I love that myth about narcissist and echo, about how, do you want me to kind of go into that?

Yeah, go into that a little bit. The narc, the term narcissist came from narcissist, uh, ancient Greek myth. And he was obsessed with himself and he was obsessed with his reflection. And he actually wasted away and died because he couldn't remove himself from looking at his reflection in the water. He couldn't even drink the water because he didn't wanna disturb the image.

Interesting. So it's like this interesting symbolism of just focusing solely on the self and like the outward appearance. Right. Versus really focusing on the inwardness. And which is also interesting parallel between the victim of a narcissist is that you're kind of doing the same thing. You're focusing on finding love outside yourself.

Mm-hmm. And the, the narcissist is really good at feeding that to you to kind of create a trauma bond. Mm-hmm. And then you're hooked and then you think that. Their act is really them. And you hold onto that false hope, which is echo. She fell in love with narcissist, and she, uh, just lost herself. She, and then when he died, because he was looking at his reflection and not drinking the water like Canadian, she wasted away as well.

And all that was left was her voice and her cursed her, right? She's called echo her, the goddess, her cursed her so that whatever, she could only say whatever someone said she could only echo. She had no words of herself, which is what happened to the empath who was trying, trying to fix and help and heal someone who doesn't want to be healed.

And just always, just like losing themselves and only echoing. And then especially with the tactics, with the narcissist, they gaslight you, meaning they start to turn. Blame and shame back on you if you try and hold them accountable. Mm-hmm. And it just becomes this spiral of, am I the narcissist? Right.

You're echoing everything that they're projecting onto you. And so this is why I love this myth, and it's really beautiful that I just recorded it yesterday and we're talking about it today on your podcast.

Jessi: That's amazing. I, oh my gosh, there's so much I could, we could talk about just from that. I find like the last thing you just said was really interesting to me about how EMPAs, can kind of echo back that mi and narcissist because the amount of times I've had my clients that are sensitive say, am I a narcissist?

I've had so many people tell me I'm selfish. Am I, am I, and I'm like, the very fact that you're asking. It shows that you're not, because a true clinical narcissist wouldn't even ask that question. No. In fact, they, they'd be so horrified by that question. They wouldn't even go there. You know? So it's, they would

Raven: blow up in your fascinating

Jessi: face.

Yeah, that too. They blow up in your face.

Raven: How dare you. They would gaslight you and you'd be like, I can't believe I'm dealing with this. B, you know, BS. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. You can't believe you've been saying this, blah, blah. You're the narc. You're always doing this. And they would find all these false evidences that they actually happen, but it, they're twisting that evidence in a, in a light where they're setting you up to think that you're a narcissist.

Yeah. So many projection, projection, projection. Oh

Jessi: yeah. So good. So maybe for empass that are listening, if you find yourself wondering if you're a narcissist based off someone else's, uh, labeling of you. Make sure that that relationship isn't co-dependent and that you're not in a relationship with a narcissist, because that could be what's actually going on.

Raven: Easier said than done for sure.

Jessi: One other thing that I find really interesting, cuz I've really, you know, on your, we had, for those listening, I got to go on Raven Show and it was so special. We had a great conversation. So I highly recommend you listen to that too. Um, but I shared that, you know, I have, uh, well actually a couple people in my life, but one, you know, in my immediate life that, um, others have labeled as a narcissist.

And I told you like I, I've come to the place now where I choose not to label them if they don't receive the label. So, but you know, there was that dynamic in our relationship and, uh, it's, it's so tricky.

Raven: It is. And to navigate the ego can do that too. Mm-hmm. You don't have to be a narcissist to. You know, shove off and skirt responsibility for your bad actions.

You can just be, I think we had, were joking, can I say cuss words in your Oh,

Jessi: 100%. Okay.

Raven: So we were joking, uh, in my podcast that, you know, like, why don't we just call 'em assholes? Like, my husband was like, you know, and back in the day we just call them assholes. Like they were not narcissists. This is like a new term and everyone's offended.

Like, you know, you could call someone an ask asshole, you're like, ah, whatever. Yeah, I am. But a narcissist. Everyone was super offended. I, I even was processing and made a mistake of calling out my parents as narcissistic. Mm-hmm. Actually, I called them actual narcissist. And this is, that was the 2022 phase of everyone calling.

Yes.

Jessi: Everyone a narcist, everyone a narcissist. Yeah, everyone's a narcissist

Raven: because we're trying to figure it out. We're trying to like process it and put the label on to help the healing. Um, but at that's part, just like anger is part of the process of healing, so is labeling and then as you become wiser and you really.

Process and analyze it, you're like, Hmm. I just think that they have limited emotional tools when, which definitely narcissists have too, but you know, it's just, you don't have to call everyone a narcissist. You can just say, wow. They really have limited tools. And I, I feel for them. I'm sorry. And actually, um, oh, I can't remember his name, so I was just listening.

I love The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday, and he was talking about, um, Marcus Aurelius. Mm-hmm. Pretty much journaling about how he was surrounded by idiots, you know, and he's always like being very meditative and very wise. And his grandfather wrote, uh, well adopt grandfather wrote an art, uh, uh, meditation about, it sounded very Buddhist to me too.

It was, you know, you just feel sorry for them that they don't have the tools. Mm-hmm. You know, you don't write them off, especially if you're a leader or. You know, have some type of, um, connection with them. Let's say they're your, they're your employees, or Hmm. You're coaching them or whatever it is. You don't write them off.

You just hold space and understand and feel sorry that they don't want to embrace the tools that are readily available to them. Yeah. They're so focused on their pain and trauma. Mm-hmm. They shove it away and they shove it away and they blame and they project and it's really all they're doing. They're just being a little toddler about dealing with their emotions and their trauma.

Yeah, absolutely.

Jessi: I've always thought about it. Not always. That's not true. Recently, in the last few years of just a lot of. Like you said, I, we talk about this a lot on the podcast, in that healing journey, like you go from one extreme to the other, right? In order to, especially if you are codependent, empathic, sensitive, you kind of have to go the other extreme just to get out of these relationships.

And you do, and you get, you experience the anger and the frustration and yes, you do tend to like over label perhaps and, and really get, you know, uh, intense about things. And that's, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just you have to remember that, that you're still in process. Like that's not the end game.

The end game is to swing the pendulum back and back, back and forth until you reach that middle of balance to where there is understanding for everyone in all of their journey. And I know for me and my parents, like I've come to realize that every generation goes a little bit further. Every generation has their healing length and they do have a stopping point.

You know, I'm gonna have a stopping point. And if I have children, they'll look at me and be like, why couldn't you go further? I'm like, dude, do you know how far I came from? Like, this is huge for

Raven: me. And when I'm, and that's the job of the next generation, is to criticize Yes. The others. So that exactly continues to evolve.

Yeah. And that's,

Jessi: that's just progress period. That's humanity. And I think it's hard. I can put myself as an empath in my parent's shoes and understand how that would be painful, because it is, it is critique, it is judgment. And for them to feel like I, this is the farthest I can go. How, how dare you ask me to go further?

You have no idea what I've been through. You know? But at the same time, like there needs to be that maturity of understanding that my child is meant to go further. And that's actually a blessing, you know? Yeah. Uh, so there is, there's a lot of like, Messiness that can occur in those relationships. You can.

That's, that's the hardest, the parent child is the toughest

Raven: for sure. I've personally had to come to that growth mindset. Mm-hmm. And just settling on, I'm a Virgo, I'm very perfectionist and I had a really beautiful, painful, yet beautiful conversation with my mother. And it was this, it was just this aha moment, like Every time I speak about trying to improve, I'm not asking her to improve, to be perfect, I'm just telling her what I need. Which is beyond her emotional tools that she's capable, which I think a lot of us can relate to in our generation. And I just realized, you know, I have to accept what is, I can't keep pushing her because when I'm pushing her and sharing with her what I need, I'm actually pushing her away.

because every single time I'm triggering her fears, I'm triggering her own self. Doubts, you know, which can turn into a reaction that a narcissist would do, like the ego defense. So I get how people so easily can label others a out of their reaction and their ego narcissist. Mm-hmm. It's very similar, but it's not true N P d unless it's turned against and it's hurting you and it's being abusive.

And I think also the term, like she's abusing me is highly overused as well last year. Like really taking responsibility and tuning in. Tuning into the tools. Tuning into what you, maybe what you're doing. Are you pushing the buttons all the time, you know? Mm-hmm. Take a step, take a step back and accept what is, and that was my biggest aha moment, thankfully.

Well, towards the end of the year. It took a while, but yeah.

Jessi: Yeah. Comes down to that. We all desire to control. And we just choose to use different tools as empass. We, we also can manipulate because we know exactly what everyone needs because that's our gifting. And so I, I really think like, no one really likes to hear this, but we're all manipulators at some level.

And so it's becoming aware of that and being honest with yourself and saying like, okay. and it's not always from a place of like, I wanna control them like, like a conscious, it's often the subconscious, right? Where you're just trying to protect yourself. You're scared. This is the safest way. It's also how you've been trained to be safe,

Raven: right?

Yeah. And then it was like meeting your needs. Mm-hmm. Also, there's this kind of message that, well, you need to speak up. I needed to share what you need to get what you want and mm-hmm. Okay. That's great. But you may be going, oh my gosh, there's another revelation from a guest on my show. Um, um, Her book is Mu is called Mother to Maiden, and I'm trying to remember her name.

Her Instagram is Mary of Magdalene, that's not her name. And she was saying, you keep going to this old rickety shack store. Mm-hmm. Right. To get what you need. You need love, you need compassion, you need time. Maybe. That was my big thing. I wanted more time mm-hmm. In my relationship with my parents. And they were always giving it to my sister and not me.

And I didn't understand it. And she's like, but you keep going to this old Rickey deal shack asking for compassion and time and love and you know, the store owner says it's been outta stock for a really long time. Like it's not here. And and she's like, and sometimes it never was. We never carried it.

Mm-hmm. But who's the crazy one continuing to go to that old Ricky Shack asking for that when it's never been there and it never will be. And that's when you just have to accept that. Find it, that's the key elsewhere, which really is finding it within yourself.

Jessi: Yeah, that's the key right there. Yeah.

Acceptance. Acceptance is like everything.

Raven: It's, oh my gosh. Yeah. It shifts everything.

Jessi: It really does. It really does. And, and it creates peace when it's genuine, you know? Uh, peace within yourself. You can just witness your parents. Then de from a place of healthy detachment, not disconnection, but healthy detachment.

And there's just, and that's also where forgiveness can roll in naturally. You know, unforced and, and you're right, like we do push our parents away, um, with our, you know, I, I know for me, I always joke that I didn't rebel as a child. I rebelled as an adult. Like I'm, I was the good girl. I was the nice girl.

I, you know, did everything my parents wanted. And then I went to college and started, um, uncovering what a healthy family should look like. I studied communications, persuasion, family, relationships, all that. And I was like, oh, hold up. This is not how, right. This is not how my family functions. And I went home and I told my parents, so I said, Hey, this is apparently how you're supposed to run a family.

Like, what happened? And they were not okay with that. And I, I, um, yeah. You know, for me it was very traumatic, the way they reacted. Yeah. But also if I flipped the script, how traumatic for them to be, like, we tried our best and now you're coming back and telling us some professors saying that we like failed.

You know, like,

Raven: yeah. And you know what? I think they probably already have that fear. I remember always my mom always saying like, I know I failed. I know I failed. It's like, Well, she already has that fear, like she's already beaten herself up about it. Yeah. And then to hear your child beat you up about it is like excruciating.

Oh man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. And this happens too, in romantic relationships. You're going to that person for something that you need to provide to yourself. And if you can't self sustain, you know, and find your love, your acceptance without that romantic partner in your life mm-hmm. Then that, I mean, that's part of your journey of recognizing, am I codependent on this person?

Mm-hmm. And my codependent on this relationship. When I finally discovered what codependency was years ago, my therapist said, Have you looked up the word codependent? And I was like, I'm not codependent. You know what you're talking about. How dare you? My ego was like, no, no, no, thank you. No, I dunno what you're talking about.

And I looked it up and I read the book she recommended and I was like, oh, I, I am. And it was only like with this one romantic relationship that I left with the narcissist. And then as the years progressed, I realized I was put appendant in all my relationships because I wasn't ever finding that security and love within myself.

Mm-hmm.

Jessi: Okay. I have to ask this question because this is something I've kind of like mold over in my head and I'd love your your thoughts on it as well. I have this feeling or this belief that empathy can be. I see it as a skill and also an innate gifting where I, the way I define empath, and I'm not saying this is, you know, the definition, but the way I've always defined it is that someone that's an empath is someone that's born where empathy is unconscious.

Like it's just there. You can't not give it, it's just, it just oozes out of you, uh, whether you're aware of it or not, where someone, um, where quote unquote a normal human that maybe isn't born with the gifting of empathy, it's a skillset that they can develop. So like, like you said, a narcissist can technically develop empathy, but they only use the skill when they want something.

Right. So, yeah. What do you think of that, that definition?

Raven: I like that definition. I mean, as I, I'm thinking through all the graphs that I've seen in a human design as you're asking that question. And I, and I see the potentiality for empathy in all the different places. Mm-hmm. And it just depends, you know, like, I've seen a graph that every single center was defined, and I was like, holy mother, DEHA, every single center defined good luck with that one.

Woo. And you know, and, and so you're like, oh, well that person's not empathetic at all. But I think you're right. It's like a human skill. Mm-hmm. To interact. And I think it's to survive, right? Yeah. Because if you aren't at least a little bit empathetic, you're not gonna be liked, people aren't gonna feel warm and fuzzy about you, and then they won't wanna feed you, they won't wanna be friends.

You get kicked out of the tribe, whatever it is. But I think it is definitely a developed survival mechanism. Yeah. But I also feel like world, like if I define empathy as a connection to divine source mm-hmm. Then I guess that means everybody is technically an empath, but what percentage of sensitivity are they?

Mm-hmm. Maybe the sensitivity is the part mm-hmm. Where there's that moving scale. Yeah, I like that. Yeah,

Jessi: it's so, I love playing with language and definitions and you know, so that's why I always like to talk about, okay, what is it like, what is, that, like empath mean to you?

Like, what does that term, because I feel like, especially nowadays, all of these therapeutic terms that we have, people have broadened them or narrowed them, and so it's always important to kind of clarify what, what everyone feels about things like. Yeah. I also just think it's fun to play with them and consider, you know, the meaning behind it, how it applies.

And especially for us as sensitives, you know, we. We are kind of a bit of an odd group. You know, we're, we're the aliens on the planet and so we see things a little differently and uh, I think sometimes that gives us a beautiful outside perspective, uh, but also it can make things a little confusing cuz of how we see it.

So I think our listeners need to hear your story of, Hmm. Kind of how you came into this realm of being kind of a voice for those that are navigating narcissist relationships, that have uncovered, that they're codependent, that they're, you know, they have this, uh, maybe overactive empathy and uh, and how to find health again within that, would you share your story with

Raven: us?

Absolutely. Yeah. I shared a bit of the story of like how I discovered that I was codependent and it was through therapy, so I definitely. To always recommend, you know, having speaking to a professional to kind of get that clarity and then you can do whatever path you want. You know, coaching with somebody, your self-discovery and all that.

But I like, just like you, I was a good girl. I was obedient. I was a straight A student. All the AP classes, I mean, I was smart, but mind you, it was also in a very, um, traditional evangelical Christian private school. So a lot of the curriculum was omitted. So that was my rebellion as I discovered at 18, about evolution.

And actually I was introduced to it by my ex, who ended up being narcissistic. And he definitely was a conditioned narcissist. Like his, he acted just like his dad did. He had mommy issues, like all this stuff. Mm-hmm. But you know, you don't see that on the outside right away because everyone puts on a really beautiful facade.

And so he introduced me to evolution and the stars and astronomy, and I was like, I've been lying to my whole life. And so I just shifted saviors, you know, the, the savior of Christianity was no longer something I could trust, and now I shifted saviors to this narcissist. Mm. And everything he said was I, I trusted because I was so grateful that he shared with me about the real world, you know?

And, um, yeah. So I just fell into that. We were together for 10 years and I kept pushing it. I kept trying to fix him. I kept trying to fix us. I kept pushing it. I kept pleasing him doing all the crazy things that he suggested that I do and I fix, which was always like very weird. Not like go to therapy or read a book.

It was like, um, you should buy some high heels. You should make sure your nails are always done. You should only eat salad. Like all these very controlling superficial vein things. Mm-hmm. Which I received because it admittedly, I was also vain and seeking approval outside of myself in the physical realm versus the spiritual realm.

And I was very spiritual throughout my childhood and high school. I was an awkward chaplain and worship leader that no one wanted to date.

Jessi: And then I, I'm familiar with that. Yes.

Raven: And then I was a total leader. I mean, even in my, uh, school, I mean, um, in my church that, so I had like school, church, and then I had church.

Church. Mm-hmm. And in my church, church I was put in a role with adults like, and I was still in a high school and it was really inappropriate cuz there was like weird chemistry going on with the other leader in the groups and stuff. And, but I was so mature and they're like, oh, who? She can do it. She's the leader.

Give it to her, give it to Raven. Yep. Been there. Yeah. So then I switched and I went completely vain and I was like, I'm gonna look the best and I'm gonna be successful on the outside. Get a career. In incorporate, like right at the right page of 1920, I couldn't even drink. Right. I wasn't technically old enough to be part of all the crowds with, again, all the older adults.

Mm-hmm. But I felt successful. And so all those solutions that were so superficial that the narcissist could control in my life, I myself take responsibility that I accepted those. I was like, yeah, that sounds like the right solution. You'll love me more if I do that. And I just got deeper and deeper in the rabbit hole.

I always call it the dark vortex of his control. And he actually grew deeper and deeper, like darker and darker. And I tried to move out. I would pack a bag, I did it seven times, pack a bag, move out because of a horrible argument cuz I was fed up with his always blaming me and my intuition would kicking and, and say, this is not right.

You should, why are you here? You should go leave. You know? And I had friends that would tell me that the way he was treating me wasn't right. I just couldn't pull myself out because I was so co-dependent and trauma bonded, you know, until my seventh, I think it was my eighth attempt. And I knew after this one argument, I had this aha moment trip.

And I came back and I immediately told him how much fun I had. Like what a joy it was. I was just expressing my emotion and he didn't hear one bit and immediately he just went in on how horrible those people are and da da da dun. They're so this and dirty judgey judgey. Mm-hmm. And I was like, you, I don't even care.

I'm not even talking to, I don't, I'm not trying to sell you on them. I'm just sharing with you how I had a great time. And so I knew right there, I was like, boom, wake up moment. He's never gonna listen or like care about how I feel ever, ever. And I had forced him to move in together, thought that would fix it.

I had, you know, I say forced because I kind of gave him ultimatums, like mm-hmm. I'm leaving. I'm not gonna be with you anymore. If we don't move in. Thought that would fix it. You know, if, and now it's like, get married, thought that would fix it. Thank God I didn't take the next step and be locked in with him for forever.

Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it was, it's been such a healing journey and you can hear in my language, I'm taking responsibility for my part. Mm-hmm. I'm not the victim anymore. Um, but this just is what it is, right? We just get ourselves stuck in this, this vortex and this trap based on what we think is normal, how we were loved, or what the, the narrative was in our head as children, right?

Mm-hmm. The conditioning of, especially in a very strict religion, do this, you know, you're already broken. You were born broken sinner, do this and you'll be saved, do this and that. It's like always very conditional. Mm-hmm. So that kind of narcissistic conditioning was like, oh yeah, that makes sense.

Totally. Like that's it. That's just like, How Jesus was told, told me to do this. Technically not the real. Jesus would be turning over in his grave hearing all the things that they say in church about what he talking about. I always call it

Jessi: Christian culture, is how I come to define it. Cause I'm like, this isn't even what was originally.

Yeah. Christian culture is really culty and powerful and it's

Raven: what, it's, it's amazingly crazy how similar it is to, um, uh, Islam, right? Mm-hmm. Cause it all came from the same region. So it's like just taking a look at the different religious organizations, you're like, ah, it all came from a pure good place.

Right? This, I call him a, um, ascended master. Jesus was an activist and it just kind of was taken by certain people and written and then rewritten and formed into whatever system they wanted. And yeah, I, it just shows that all of us. We're trying to get some agenda. Right. Especially the power. We all have an agenda of what we're trying to get out of life.

Get out of a relationship. I had to sign a lease. Like I had to get something legal Hmm. In place for me to get out because after this big argument, I saw like physically saw this gray mist in my bedroom and I could, I closed my eyes and I could see that dark black vortex.

Like, it was so clear to me. Wow. It's like that was my awakening moment. I was like, I am like spiritually woke now. I don't even know what that means. I just know I see this and I need to get out and yeah. So I, I had to sign a lease to hold myself accountable to stay out.

Jessi: Yeah, that makes sense. And especially as nice girls that follow roles, and it's helpful to have something because that is one benefit of being co-dependent, is that you're very responsible.

So if you, you use that to your benefit of like, I'm gonna be responsible to this person now, so I can't back out. That's, that's brilliant. Yes.

Raven: Yes. Yeah. All the other times didn't work and he ignored me. It's not like he chased me, but I felt lost without him. Yeah. I felt like something was missing in my life and it only took like a day or two and I would reach out and he would, you know, convince me that everything was all right.

If you just do this, we'll be fine. Da da da da da. Yeah. So what was

Jessi: that like separating from him and how long did it take for you to. Uh, I know healing's a journey, but that, that big original kind of wound and connection, how long did it take to fully kind of cut that cord and

Raven: recover? Oh gosh, yeah, probably 10 or nine years.

Uh, and writing my book really helped. After those nine years, I, I did so much that throughout that time I went to therapy, I started a therapeutic like horse business, which was horrible. Like as far as money and body issues, like it totally broke me down, but it was very therapeutic to be in nature and with the horses, um, all of the different things.

I started listening to, um, Dr. Joe Dispenza, Gabby Bernstein, um, Jen Sinero. I just started listening to books cuz then recently thereafter, um, you know, I actually did the horse business with my husband. I met him a few weeks later and it was just such a. Miraculously like connection. It was divine and there was still so much healing.

I had to do that. It was a bumpy road in our relationship. Mm-hmm. Because I was so triggered all the time. I had P T S D and I would just break down and have these crazy just episodes, um, things, you know, watching movies, all smells, sounds, driving through that old neighborhood. It just really set me off.

And so there's, there's all that, that I had to heal from a process. And yeah, it took me down this spiritual path of non-religion, spiritual path of finding ways and modality, somatic healings and meditations and all the things, the visualization, the E f t tapping to heal. Mm-hmm. And then I, I wrote my book and it seemed to really like open up this door that I could really find peace and forgiveness and healing.

And then now being able to speak about it, you know, having, starting a podcast and I really didn't fully embrace speaking about it until last April. I avoided it. Even though I wrote my book, I was like, oh, I'm just gonna talk about intuition. No. And the universe is like, no, that's not why you're here.

You're supposed to be helping bring back sparkle to those who, who have been hurt by narcissism, which is a lot of us. And even just toxic people and their egos that kind of manifest as narcissistic. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been a journey. Mm-hmm. A really winding journey. But it's also been beautiful.

Jessi: Yeah, it sounds like it.

It's, but isn't that the joy though, of having, having gone through something really hard to be able to, on the flip side, give that healing as a gift, you know, and to not have it mean nothing. To not have it. Just be this, well, that happened, now I'm moving forward, I guess, you know, but to actually realize there was purpose in that, you know, because alongside that, I hear you were whether we loved the environment that it happened in.

You were curated as a leader. You were curated as someone that could, you know, present yourself, that could be in front of people, and then you were given this experience, you know, or you could even say you chose that experience, you know? And right as you, as you move through it now, you get to use all those skill sets to then share and to present and to offer it and, uh, to use, like obviously language in words are a gift for you if you are a writer and a speaker, right?

So to be able to process for that amount of time and then to verbalize it, to write it out, is so powerful. And also healing. I, I totally agree with you that. There's one, it's one thing to kind of heal and process in your mind and in the quiet of your life, and it's another level and layer to then go public.

Raven: Yeah. It was a process. I had three different versions of the book. It took me like three years because you know, she told my sister about it and she told my mother, and then my mom called crying like, how could you air our dirty laundry? Huh? I was like, all of her triggers and yeah, it was really hurt and I was like, oh, I guess I won't write it.

And then I just felt this such compulsion to not hold back and to write it. And it's so beautiful how, I mean, I was like, if I just can touch one person with this book Yeah. Then that's, that's the goal. That's it. And I've, I've had so many reach out to me, like while reading it saying, I was reading your book and I felt so empowered.

And one of 'em just the other day said, and then like that same moment, I was served by my acts and you know, it was. There's, it was just, it's almost like, like a net, like it's been a net for people to catch them as they're falling through these really difficult times. So it's really fulfilling and beautiful to hear that feedback and to know Yeah.

That my pain, like you said, is shining bright now like a diamond. Mm-hmm. Helping others.

Jessi: Absolutely. I just got chills.

Raven: My inclination cross is dominion, so it took me a quite a few years to figure out what that meant. I was like, okay, so dominion, that's, uh, Bernie Sanders has dominion and I don't know why I keep going back to that, but there was another, um, classical, um, um, what is it called when you're con um, not a writer.

Composer. Composer, composer. Mm-hmm. But he actually ended up organizing like the library of classical music and Wow. I was like, okay, what do I do with this? What does that mean? You've got a politician, you've got a musician. And then my north nodes in Gemini. And I was like, mm-hmm. What does that mean? You know?

It was like, which is all about words, like you said, like the talent of words. Mm-hmm. And so that's why I fully embraced being an author. I fully embraced being a podcaster, which I never in a cajillion years thought that that's actually career that you can do that. And I, you know, I just, I have my bachelor's in arts, And I did interior design. I felt like you have to tactally do something and Yeah. And even to this day, my mom has like, she doesn't understand what I do. She's like, I don't know how you're doing that, but Okay.

Jessi: I feel like that's so common. Yeah. Yeah. My mom, my, my sweet parents are like, yeah, we don't know our daughter.

We don't even know who she is anymore.

Raven: You know, at the internet and the Asian, of course there's got all these. Different careers that they can't even fathom. Like I don't know what you're doing. Yeah. Which

Jessi: is kind of cool and exciting. Yeah. So wait, so tell us your human design real quick, cuz you've been, uh, referencing

Raven: that.

Yeah. So my type is generator, author is pure, I'm a six two. Mm-hmm. So I've got the role model leader, right. I was born and it's in my graph that I'm a leader. Two is the hermit. So I'm always retreating to write something or plan something. This is funny, I, I always feel guilty about like doing really good at going live, like right to be there for my community.

And then I retreat and I don't, and I'm like, oh, I should go live. No, I don't feel like it. I'm just gonna hermit, I'm just gonna work on my book. I'm just gonna do this. And, but that's, that's it. That's part of my design is preparing and mastering what I can bring to them when I come. So yeah, I can

Jessi: fully relate to that.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Fellow six two and. Interesting. And I'm like envisioning your chart. What are your defined

Raven: centers? all except for the root solar plexus and Will. Okay. Yeah.

Jessi: Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So you're really sensitive to

Raven: Pressure sets me up since of, they really sets me up for being scammed, which narc you.

Well you've got the

Jessi: pressure that's Sure. You've got that open identity urgency. Oh, open ego.

Raven: yeah, the. Open ego. I love to always reference the ego as the will. Like Mm. Anyone can sell me something, someone can sell me ice. But I have a whole thing of ice. Cause I feel like I need to like buy ice from you.

Oh, you're right. I need it. Their agenda. Horrible. Oh my gosh. Horrible.

Jessi: Yeah. Yeah. And of course the open solar plexus, you're very open solar plexus sensitive

Raven: to emotions. Yeah, I am. And I was always labeled the one who exploded. Like I had the temper tantrums as a child because I was amplifying, like let's say we were all getting frustrated playing something when I was seven.

Mm-hmm. Or whatever conflict or you know, I don't, you don't remember what happens when you're seven. Exactly. But I just remember being in a circle with my friends and then everyone on the block would hear the upset and it was from me. And then I would get sent to my room cuz that's not appropriate.

Mm-hmm. And I, I didn't really know how to manage that. I was just amplifying, yeah. The frustration with my voice. Which is defined.

Jessi: Yeah. And being, uh, you know, a natural or a highly sensitive person, plus having an open solar plexus that's like really intense. Yeah. Because yeah, you're, you just are picking up on everyone's emotions and then where do you put that if you don't know how to, as kids, we don't have boundaries.

We don't know how to manage that. We don't know, you know, the separation we see ourselves all merged. Right. And that's beautiful, but also really hard at the same time.

Raven: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I think my open root had that. Hmm. The whatever it was part of the recipe of that too. Right. Yeah. I sure to like figure out the solution.

Right. I see it

Jessi: in you too, cuz I have an open route as well, and I have like a ton of defined gates. It's really interesting. I have a ton of defined gates in my open route, but it's open at the same time. Mm-hmm. So I really think it highlights and enhances the pressure. Um, but I, I hear in you a lot of similarities of my own journey of just like rising to leadership, always being treated as an adult even when you shouldn't have been.

And feeling the pressure of everyone being like, oh, we know that if you just give it attention, you'll be good at this. So can you just take this over please. But we don't have the, the ability to sustain that, you know, so we would burn out and all that. At least you had a sacral goodness. Yeah.

Raven: I'm jealous of that.

I, I know burnout takes a little longer for me with my say, but I was talking but silly to my, my, um, social media manager who's helping. All the stuff, even beyond social media. And he's like, you need to post once a day, not twice a day or three times a day, because you're gonna burn out. And he's a projector.

So I'm like, anything you say, I will take it. I will listen and probably take your advice. Yeah.

Jessi: Good,

Raven: good. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. It just is. Oh, I just, it's always something I've had. I'm still, every day I, meditation I swear, is what really has helped me with my open route because I'm able to just calm down and breathe and be like, it's not all gonna get done.

Hmm. And it's like that pressure to get that task done also. And I have children, so as I'm doing a task, especially editing a podcast, they're asking for food in this. Mm-hmm. And it's been a real exercise to just breathe. And like put the mouse down and go get the snack. Like it's gonna be here when you come back.

Like that open route really sucks sometimes. Yeah, I

Jessi: hear that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, I think, have you gotten into Jean Keys? I feel like you probably have a little bit.

Raven: I haven't Jean Case. No, I ha I mean I know Jean Case. Yeah. But I haven't dived deep into the Jean Case. Oh,

Jessi: I wanna encourage you to do it.

You'll probably get obsessed with it. Um, I found what's really helpful with understanding my gates right, is that's what Jean Keith really is about, is the different, um, the different lines. So I find it, well, not just alliance, but the gates and the lines, but when I was looking at my open route, really understanding the different gates in there and what they stood for, not just from a human design perspective, but from a gene Keith's perspective.

It really helped me to kind of deepen my understanding of, wow, this is, you know, my world as health. So this is so huge. This is how, this is how I'm ruining my body. Maybe ruining is a strong word. This is how I am, you know, running myself into the ground day after day after day. Like, it's here. This is where it is.

Yeah. Um, and so really, It's so important to honor, you know, the need for rest. And I know even just this week I, my husband's gone on a trip and I've actually let myself sleep in really late. I've just been kind of what I would have termed moving laly before. I'm now like, no, I'm just kind of cruising. I'm normally not a cruiser.

I'm kind of an intense person. So it's like just it's, but it's been from a place of reflection of like, what happens if I just like rest more? What happens if I just, it's not even that I'm not doing things or I'm not moving, but I'm doing it from a place of rest and a lack of rush, like as if I have.

Like so much time. I have more time than I need to get these tasks done. The manner in which I do them is so different and it feels, I almost feel foreign. Like it's this weird sensation where I, I can sense part of me that's like, haha, speed it up, you know? Come on, do more. You didn't do enough. And then this other side that's like an experimental, this is interesting.

I feel really good. I wonder what would happen if I kept doing this. Would everything fall down? Would things not work out? Would money dry up? Would whatever, you know, all the, the primal fears that roll in and everything I've been learning about Jin Keys and human design when it comes to the root is that it just, it's turned into this kind of mantra statement of the more I rest, the healthier I become and the more like abundant my life is.

And it's like this right now, it's a theory that I'm playing with. And it'll eventually turn into a belief and then eventually into a reality. Right. But yeah, it's tough when you have that open route to really lean into that. Some people just, they're like, yeah, just take a nap. I'm like, you don't understand it.

Raven: It's so hard for me. Mine is racing. How can I take a nap? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it reminds me of, I dunno if you've seen the Hamilton play, but it's like him writing profusely in Hamilton. Mm-hmm. All of those, bills for mm-hmm. The Constitution. He wrote like, I don't know, did he write 50 or plus he wrote like 80% of them.

Amazing. Like he must have had it open

Jessi: roots. Yeah. Going for it, driver. Yeah.

Raven: So sometimes if I do feel like I need to get something done, that also encourages me. Like I'm doing it with a purpose. I'm not just like burning myself out. So there's that positive and negative to it. Yeah. Ugh.

Jessi: So kind of getting back to empathy, what are some of the giftings like, let's talk about the positives that you've really started to nurture and honor and own now that you've kind of come out of being like, oh no, I'm codependent.

I'm an empass. It almost like a negative thing, and then healing and releasing and coming into a place of more balance of like, this is actually a gift. Like what does that look like for you being in that state?

Raven: Yeah, and honestly, this didn't really open up for me until I saw my chart and I knew exactly where my open doors were and exactly where my quote unquote, Weaknesses or failures.

Right. Every time I was sold into to sell something in an mlm, I always felt like a failure cause I couldn't sell it. I was like, oh, actually it's okay. That's my open listener. And I just had the back door swung wide open and they just can't came on in. And I was like, yeah, sure. Come on, I'll do that for you over, you knows, now I, I can still shine my light with the screen door closed.

Mm-hmm. Or if I need to lock it, you know, close that door and lock it because I'm dealing with a narcissist. Like lock it, lock it. Who cares what they think, who cares what their reaction is. Pretty much the epiphany of don't give a shit was how I got over my unhealthy empathy. Mm. To be able to apply my empathy to those who really needed it.

Right. Especially like my children and my husband, myself. Right. My self compassion and then I have the capacity. To help others who are reaching out to me in my coaching sessions. You know, those who I read for. Um, but yeah, the, the boundaries, it's such a cliche. 2022 was huge talking about boundaries, but let's call it not a boundary, but the screen door or the back door closing that.

Mm-hmm. And those specific particular areas as an empath is key to be able to shine your light out. You can't shine it if it's like just dimming. Dimming, because everyone's taking that energy. Yeah. You finally

Jessi: have a full bucket to

Raven: give. Yeah. And it has to be for the right people. And you can't, like, if there are people, here's my, also my biggest lesson is an empath.

If there are people constantly needing you and you get a little bit of a boost, like, oh, they need me and I can help them. That is another part of your ego tapping into the unhealthy empathy and you step into these roles. They're not meant for you. You can be kind and hold space and say, I am here for you as a friend, but I can't, I, I'm really busy with my family, my work, I can't field calls from you every single day or every single weekend.

Mm-hmm. And if you do need help from that, like find a number they can call, maybe they need a hotline, maybe they need a therapist. Like just refer them to someone who can aptly hold that role for them. I think as empaths we take on all these roles that aren't ours, thinking that we can do it, cuz you probably can.

But at what cost? I know what cost. And usually when I do that, the cost is my energy. Mm-hmm. My anxiety, like the, the, if they call and my stomach drops, like, you know that you've overextended your empathy when your stomach drops or you feel, um, obligated. To talk to them. Mm-hmm. You've, your roles have been meshed and the boundaries have been crossed, and that's been overstepped.

So, yeah. Um, just tuning into holding those boundaries and, and usually I'll, I'll lose them as a friend because I've presented to something them, like, I'm here for you. I'm gonna do this for you. And then I do it for a while, and then I'm like, oh, I can't do it now. Like, this is too much. And then they're like, well, this was my expectation of you, and since now you're not doing it.

You're a bad person and I'm not gonna talk to you anymore. And then I lose them totally as a friend and they actually feel like they're losing me as a friend because I'm putting boundaries up, but they're just all or nothing kind of a situation. And it's really toxic, and I think it's gonna, yeah. It's gonna be an interesting observation throughout this year, that being the main theme is like, how do we interact in our relationships and what roles are we taking on?

Mm.

Jessi: So good. Yes. There's so many gold nuggets and everything you just said. I'm like sitting back, you're going, amen.

Raven: You write a whole book on bridge.

Jessi: Ah. And I think that's like, gosh, even when I've been, I've now been going on podcasts and a lot of the questions I've been getting are about like, how do you create that inner circle?

How do you hold that? How do you, because as sensitive souls, like our deepest desire is to love on people, is to care for people, is to, to, and even deeper than that is to save people from experiencing the pain we've experienced. Right. That's really the core. And uh, I know for myself, that's,

Raven: but that's not our job.

That's not our job. Our souls all pick some type of struggle. Mm. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's their struggle. It's their, you could say it's their problem, but it's really their struggle. They chose Yes. You can't save them from their struggle. And

Jessi: that's the perspective that is new to me that I've taken on last year of just like, okay, what is free will truly, and I now, I'm like, I think this started before we even came onto this planet.

And if that's true, we chose our parents, we chose our life. Like that is a part of the journey. And whether it's conscious, are unconscious, trying to rescue is actually like the worst thing you could possibly do. Like you're trauma

Raven: and it's a sabotaging response. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're sabotaging. Yeah. It's, it is actually a trauma response.

It's unconscious. Yeah. And so again, going back to mindfulness awareness, meditation will help you see your patterns. You'll be like, Ooh, I'm sa, I'm trying to say it again. It's okay to be kind. It's okay to not give up hope on them, but step into a role that shouldn't be yours. That's the biggest thing, right?

You're not a therapist. Have you gone, you know, have you gone through like I was, so I'm really wise, but have I gone through an actually professional therapist? No. So therefore this is, you need to speak to a therapist. You can't call me every weekend, every day if you have a problem. Mm-hmm. That's not my job.

And I think the beauty

Jessi: of using a therapist, using a psychiatrist is money. I find that money is actually a really beautiful boundary, and I've even, even from a business perspective, I really started to use that very strongly, um, which has been a big journey for me. Um, but as sensitive as Empass, we tend to really live in that nonprofit world.

Like that mindset. I call it the nonprofit mindset, where it's like, whether you're running a business or not, you act like a nonprofit where you're like, anyone that needs help, anyone that's vulnerable, anyone that's hurting, I can't, this is really what it's, I can't bear to watch you be hurt because then it hurts me because I.

Leaning too much. I'm merging with you, so I'm in pain, so I need to solve your pain so that we're both out of pain. Right. That's really what it is. Totally, totally. But, uh, there's just this, you know, I'm free. Like, oh, well if I'm not physically doing something right now, if I don't have something on my calendar blocked out, then I guess I'm available.

Right? But when you have someone that's a professional and you have to pay to see them, like that person is gonna really consider, do I actually want to utilize this time? But if you're free, it's just, there's this lack of. Inhibition. Like someone will just kind of use up your time with no awareness.

Mm-hmm. And no, and I, I wanna say that it's half the time it's unconscious. They don't, they're not thinking about it. But when there's money involved, they, because most people that's a high value, they will, it's like this, all of a sudden it's in their awareness of like, oh, I'm using this much time to talk about this issue.

When money's not there, they're not thinking about that. They're just vomiting on you. Right, totally. So it's helpful to redirect them to someone that will bring that to their awareness, um, with the tool of money.

Raven: And there are social workers who, depending on they have a scale system. I was very lucky.

That's true. The therapist I found, she was a social worker and she only charged me $20 a session because I had the horse business and I was broke because they were all eating hay and I was eating hot dogs and they ate better than me, but I still am. Invest of the time. It was the parameters. Like, okay, I'm giving her like, that's a lot of money for me right now.

Mm-hmm. And plus, I know I only have an hour with her, so I was getting this beautiful visual as you were talking about that, that when someone's paying, it's like the therapist, social worker is reaching outta hand and pulling them up a step. Mm-hmm. Versus that free exchange's actually keeping that person in that like little cyclone whirlpool stuck down here because why would they ever get out?

It feels really good to complain about. It feels really good to talk about it. Yeah. It gives them that dopamine that they're being heard, but that's very good. Now they've grabbed you down into the spiral cyclone and now you're both drowning. Yep.

Jessi: Oh, that's such a good imagery. I love that. I love that.

It's so true. And to go to your point too, it's like. It's not about how much money, it's just, it could be a dollar. You know, like, it's just, it's literally that using money to be that awareness factor. And I use that in my health business as well. And, um, it's, it's not about the quantity, it's about the fact that it's even happening.

It's an energy exchange and there's something really powerful about saying this is like, I am worthy of this 25 cents, whatever it is, you know, it doesn't have to be a ton of money, but I am worthy of this. And also, oh, I, you know, this is, I'm gonna be conscious of this time now and be conscious of this person because this is something that needs to be done in this kind of setting where I do have to contribute.

Yeah. You

Raven: know, I love that. And one other thought on the free thing, Hmm. Is nothing's ever free, especially for you who is the giver? You're actually paying out your energy and God, that's like way more valuable than money. Like your, your energy's getting sucked and you. If you're not available for, let's say you're on the phone with this person who's draining you or, or you're in a relationship with someone who's constantly draining you, waking up in the middle of the night like horrible narcissists do and like creating conflict, you then don't have the capacity to be your highest self for yourself, for your job, especially for your kids.

And they deserve that No matter, no matter what they deserve, that you give them their all. Cuz there's just such a short time, a window for that.

Jessi: Yeah. It's value systems too. Like what, what are your top values? It's if you know that, if you know I'm, you know, these three things are what I'm here for.

Anything outside of that you, you be cautious with. You really evaluate if it's something that you wanna give your time and energy to. Yeah. So, and

Raven: it doesn't make you a bad person. Like I question myself as I'm putting these boundaries up. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a jerk. You can still be kind and send them love and light and actual warm wishes with boundaries.

But I have a job I've gotta work on. I have a husband, like I have a, whatever it is that you prioritizing that's important to you, that always comes first. And if that person is pushing those boundaries, you just with love and light, you know? Yeah. I can't, can't field your calls all the time. Yeah. And

Jessi: I think one other thing that we can talk real quick about too is, um, I've seen a lot of, and I've seen this in my own life, first and foremost, and then with others, is this like, well, if the person isn't a narcissist, if there aren't any red flags, they're like a beautiful soul and a beautiful person.

But I feel that obligation that you were just discussing, I feel like they're using my time not out of meanness. Like they're a, a wonderful person. In fact, I even admire them for some things. Yeah. Even there. It can still not be a match.

Raven: Right? Yeah. And we all have a bit of narcissistic traits in us Mm.

Unconsciously that we're doing. It's called our ego. And if we're being unconscious about it, because we're struggling with something, maybe you're struggling with, uh, or that person struggling with whatever their soul's struggle is, right? Mm-hmm. Like then they want, they wanna seek help. And if you're an easy help, right?

It's like all of us humans will choose the path of lease resistance. Yeah. So if you are the path of lease resistance, they will always call you again. But what, at what cost? And Yeah. They don't have to be narcissist. Mm-hmm. They absolutely just can be someone who need, who is needy. Mm-hmm. And but you need to guide them to the proper person Yeah.

To help them with their neediness.

Jessi: What would that conversation look like? Like how could you give us a little script act? Like if I was there I was, you know, some, some girl you met at some event and you're like, wow, we both really, and we jived right off the bat. You know, we had this great conversation.

We seemed like we were on the same page. Then suddenly I'm kind of saying, Hey Raven, uh, let's get coffee and I wanna get coffee. Like, can we get coffee like once a week? Can we like hang out for like, and then every time we get together it's like a three hour conversation cuz we're deep souls. Right?

Raven: Of course.

They would never give you that disclaimer. It would just be like, wanna grab us some coffee? Yeah. They would never, ever be like, oh, let's do this again and once a week, let's sit here for three hours. That's something that you have to like pick up on the non-verbal. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you won't be even be able to pick it up on the non-verbal.

It just will happen. It'll happen. And then, so here's the lesson is the first time it happens and they're just going on and on. And you start to feel like, okay, I gotta go now. Like I gotta go now. Like I have other things I need to do. And they're just, oh my gosh, and did you da that? And they keep talking, oh my, I'd just love to talk to you.

I wanna talk to you all day long. It's like red flag. Mm-hmm. You know, and that's the conversation where, of course you're, you're a human, you're an empath. You're gonna go on the first coffee. I'm not gonna say don't go on the first coffee. Yeah. Because that might be a beautiful relationship with two mutually healthy people.

You just never know. So that's the one part is like, be open still. But with like the breaks on in first gear, not fifth gear, like us and past, like to do stay in first gear, we're besties in 30 minutes. That's another red flag. Besties in 30 minutes. I mean, you can feel a connection like we do, like we're having fun, we're talking, but I mean, we're both not saying like, oh my gosh, like, let's get together and let's talk for hours.

And oh my gosh, we're besties now. Like there's, there's a fine line between. Respect, professionality. You know, it depends also where you're meeting them. If you're meeting 'em, I guess in a bar it's more casual. Mm-hmm. Um, if you're meeting them, like say for instance on a podcast or at work, there's some professional boundaries there that you just can't cross.

Like, so first step is knowing what your boundaries are. Hmm. Because that way you know what you'll allow to cross and what you want. Um, so the conversation would go, let's say at, at the end, oh my gosh, this was so lovely. I need to go pick up my kids. Just make some excuse up if you don't have to, but you need to get out.

Or if you don't have kids, you're like, oh, I have a deadline and I really need to get some work done. And it was so, it was so really, so nice and lovely meeting with you. I'll call you Right. And then kind of put the ball in your court and then it's okay if you don't call them for a couple weeks. I think that's healthy.

But they will feel like if, again, if they're unhealthy and they're codependent, they will call you and reach out and you can. If you feel your gut drop already, you don't have to feel the call. If you feel brave, go ahead, field the call and say, I'm really busy. I'm so sorry I can't talk. You know, let's try next week.

Um, and if it just kind of perpetuates, then that's when you're gonna have to put up some boundaries and say, you know, it, it's, I've really enjoyed our conversation the other day. I really wish you so much love and light, but I really have to focus right now on my work and my family. And you can leave it at that.

You don't need to get any more specific. They should be able to receive that cue. And if not, you've already spoken to them about where your energies are now. Like really gonna prioritize and if they start to like blow up your text thread, right? That's what ego loves to do is freak out and like send you 10 texts.

Uh, don't reply. Just take your time, walk away. Take a deep breath. I would say go meditate cuz that's gonna give you your soul's message. You need to give them and say, I really wish you well. This is just taking up a lot of my time right now. Or I, I don't know, you could, that sounds harsh, right? The impact you're like, I wouldn't say that.

Um, I would say, you know, this, um, I just really need to focus on Yeah. Blank right now. Mm-hmm. And I'll get back to you when, um, you know, when I'd love to reconnect. And that way it kind of gives you the power. It's got your boundaries. I mean, just think of it as a salesperson outside your door. You close the door, say, thank you so much, I'm not interested.

Close the door. Right? Yeah. So lean, I'm not an interest part in that relationship, is I'm really focusing on this right now. And you close the door with love and light. You're not mad. I mean, of course you'll be a little bit peeved because you feel like you put yourself in that situation, right? You're gonna start blaming yourself, but.

Always, always, if you can with love and light, because then you won't feel bad or guilty that you've put that boundary up. Mm-hmm. You know, and it's, it's their journey and it's their struggle.

Jessi: Yeah. We're not responsible for their reaction. That's the hardest one. No,

Raven: that's the hardest one. Yeah. And that's where that don't give a shit kind of comes in like that helped me because I'd always be like, well, what if they say this?

Or what if they feel this and oh my gosh. Like they're gonna be so devastated. Like they'll probably just move on and find another easy path of least resistance. Honestly, that's a bit of your ego thinking that you're the only one that can save them.

Jessi: Ooh, so good. Yes. Thank you for that reminder. Mm-hmm.

Yep,

Raven: yep, yep. I been reminded multiple times and I can't take credit for that one. My husband's always telling me that he like, you know, you can't save them. You know, that's kind of arrogant of you a thing that you can save them. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessi: Well, Raven, this is so powerful. Thank you for sharing and just opening up.

Are there any resources that you would, uh, send someone that's listening where this is kind of a new idea to them or someone that is progressing through that healing journey, coming out of a narcissist relationship or even just codependency? Are there people? Obviously your book

Raven: is a wonderful resource and reach out to me.

Um, I will share with you the link to where you can sign up to receive my, the audible version of my book for free right now for, I have a limited amount of copies that I'm sharing. Yes. The free copy of my book. That's really gonna get you started because it is how to overcome gaslighting. ed, I weave my story and education about narcissism, about codependency.

And the manipulation. And as well as at the end of each chapter, I have a spiritual exercise I weave in human design and astrology. And at the very last chapter, I have like a human design 1 0 1 chapter. So

Jessi: amazing. Yeah. Oh, it's so many tools.

Raven: So many tools. So that's on Amazon, and if you want to listen to the free copy, um, click the link in the show notes to get that.

Um, yeah, just fill in your email and then I'll send you a personal code through an email. Perfect.

Jessi: Yeah. Okay. I have one last question. I always ask my guest. It's kind of a fun off the wall, but it gives us kind of another angle perspective of who you are. If you were a plant, so a flower, an herb, a tree, which one would capture your essence?

Raven: Oh, I haven't really thought of that, but immediately, I don't even know if it's the right name. You know those purple flowers? I think it's the iris. Mm-hmm. Is

Jessi: that, I just thoughted that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I visualized that when you said the purple flower.

Raven: Mm-hmm. Purple. Oh my gosh. But that's it. That's, mm-hmm.

That's my soul flower.

Jessi: You love that, that, oh,

Raven: that's cool. I could see that. I love that question. Oh, well, I, I definitely consider myself a plant witch. I love plants. You consider

Jessi: yourself a plant.

Raven: A plant witch. A plant. Oh, a plant witch.

Jessi: Like I'm absolutely a plant

Raven: in my next life. Please. Maybe a plant.

Jessi: That'd be a nice life. Much. Yeah. Much more simple, much less complex. Oh, well, thank you so much for sharing, Raven. I appreciate it. And just for the final one, like where can people follow you? Talk to us about your podcast, your social media, how can they connect with you? Yeah.

Raven: My website is Raven scott.show and anywhere you can find me and to connect with me is there.

I love to be on Instagram. My podcast is called Empath and the Narcissist. My handle on Instagram is Raven Scott Show, and I just joined TikTok, so if you wanna find me on TikTok, Raven scott.show over there. Nice. Thanks. Dragging my feet joining TikTok. I feel like an old lady.

Jessi: Oh no, you're, you're gonna be great at it.

I feel like generators are like made for TikTok. That's perfect. Probably. Yes. Yes. Put all your energy there. Yes. Oh, well thank you Raven. It was such an honor to have you on today.

Raven: Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure talking with you.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

Connect with Raven

• Raven’s Website

• @ravenscottshow on Instagram

• @ravenscott.show on TikTok

• Empath and The Narcissist Podcast

Links Mentioned

• Empath and The Narcissist Book

• Empath and The Narcissist Audio Book

---

Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi

Episode 33: The Tale of Two Natural Sensitives Moving to the Country & Back Again - Learn How to Trust Your Body to Make Big Life Decisions

Conversation

Episode 33 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jesse Michelle Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi: Guys, welcome in. I have Kyra here and I am just so excited to get started with this conversation. If you tuned in, as I said in the intro to our last conversation, she left us with a cliffhanger about her move to a gorgeous isolated island, and I was dying to learn more. So I begged her to come back on the podcast because we just have to talk about this, this dream that we all have of moving out to, whether it's the forest or the prairies or the island, whatever beautiful nature filled, isolated place that is calling you.

Jessi: Uh, both Kyra and I have kind of done that, and I wanted to have sort of an open-ended conversation between the two of us of what. That actually looks like, and the reality, like the pros and maybe some of the hardships that are there, um, that we didn't, neither of us expected, um, but also, you know, some of the beautiful things to it and just the overall process.

Jessi: So Kyra, welcome on. So glad to have you back.

Kyra: Thank you so much for inviting me back. Um, this is a conversation that I have been wanting to have just generally. Um, and so when you sort of sent me a message about wanting to talk about this, coming back on, um, and then wanting to talk about this specifically, I was so excited because I've, you know, I've written an article about it, but other than that, there hasn't really been a, a venue, um, For it, for this discussion.

Kyra: So I'm, I'm super happy to be having it because I feel like, um, there's sort of this cultural or societal expectation or mold, um, for settling down and staying in one place. Hmm. And there isn't a lot of, um, understanding around or, um, there's no sort of system or mold or, um, example that we have for people sort of moving around and not being okay.

Kyra: And so I think if you are someone who's trying new things and you're somewhat of a restless spirit, it can kind of feel like a lonely place and a lot of self-doubt because there's nobody talking about what that journey looks

Jessi: like. Mm. Such a good point. Yeah. And as, as sensitives as introverts, like we we're dreamers, you know, we have big visions and we also are.

Jessi: Somewhat particular, a little bit, a little bit. Uh, and so we really care about our environment. And if we grew up in a place that just didn't resonate, it's, it's almost necessary that we move, like we're, you know, un again, unless we live in like the perfect environment, we have to move. Like, we have to find a better environment for ourselves.

Jessi: Um, and it's, it's a really beautiful journey, but it can be challenging because we are so particular, you know, I know for myself, I tend to, I'm very, uh, idealistic is the word I would use. And I just like create this beautiful picture in my mind of a place. And then I kinda lock in on that picture, whether it's reality or not, and get really excited about it.

Jessi: And then when I go, or when I experience it, I'm like, oh, okay, this is, this is raw real life and it's not quite what I was expecting. And sometimes I do get blown away by certain things that I didn't expect, and it's usually the things that I did expect that don't go the way that I intended. Mm-hmm. So I, you know, it in some ways it balances it out, but, um, when it comes to moving and finding a new location, like that's such a big process.

Jessi: It's huge. Like your whole life is relocating and it's, especially nowadays where, like you said, like not too many people do that you kind of just sort of stay in the same general area you're in. Um, and especially in the last few years, like nobody's moving. Right. Everyone's, um, well I guess I shouldn't say that.

Jessi: A lot of people are moving out of the cities into the suburbs. Um, but then it's like once you've moved, you're kind of like sort of stuck there for a bit cuz of just everything that's going on in the world. But, oh, and the article that you mentioned for those that, um, are new in Kira, wrote this beautiful article.

Jessi: It was for Introvert Dear, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Wonderful website by the way, for anyone that, um, resonates with the label of introvert, uh, all about her move and process. So definitely read that as well. We'll link it below in the show notes, but let's get started a little bit with your story. Kind of tell us how you went on this journey and walk us through it and then we'll dive in and ask questions and get into the nitty gritty of it.

Jessi: Yeah.

Kyra: So it's a funny question cuz I wonder how far back to go, right? Um, however

Jessi: far you feel. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyra: So I'm, I'm born and raised in Toronto and Toronto, Canada, Canada's largest city. And so I'm a real city girl. Um, I met my husband. On a weekend trip to Calgary and in a whirlwind kind of thing, I was just like, I'm just gonna move in with you.

Kyra: So then I moved across the country to Calgary. We were living there for five years. And then, um, we had our child there and eventually moved back to Toronto. I, Calgary wasn't a great fit for me and I wanted to be close to family and et cetera. So we moved back to Toronto. But as it turns out, my husband is like a super country mouse and just hates Toronto.

Kyra: Like, it was like, it's not just a, just about hating Toronto. It's like, it was like taking a salt water fish and putting them in a lake. Like he was just, he could not survive in that environment. And there was a lot of good that came out of that because, Being a large city, there were like huge, um, career opportunities for him.

Kyra: So there was a balance. But at some point after sort of having been there, done that with the career thing, he was like, I, I can't live here anymore. So we were looking for someplace else to go and I just said, you know what? I'm open to anywhere provided that we can find a really great school. Mm. Right.

Kyra: And we wound up finding an outdoor elementary school program, a forest school that was in the same area where my family had a cottage growing up. So a few hours north of the city and we went to the place, we did a tour of the school. It was. Too good to be true is how I would describe it in every sense of the word.

Kyra: It was there were children being pulled on sleds through the snow to collect maple syrup. Oh my gosh. They were having hot chocolate over a bonfire outside. Like it was just, it was magic. And the principal was like, we're just this big homeschool. It's like everybody is family here. And there were only 40 students in a pre-K to eight school, so it was like extremely small class sizes.

Kyra: And coming from Toronto where the classes were just brimming with children mm-hmm. We were like, oh my gosh, okay, we have to, we gotta do it. Well we have to do it right. We have to like, this seems perfect. So, um, we sold everything that we possibly could and um, like cashed in any investments and et cetera, and did whatever we could to be able to afford tuition.

Kyra: And we dropped everything and moved up north. Wow. And. The first little bit. We moved in the summer, so it was cottage season and it was just blissful. Right. And of course, uh, Muskoka is the name of the area. Muskoka is full of Toronto people in the summer. So I was like, this is amazing. Like the people are cool.

Kyra: It's like we're just outside all the time. Everybody's on their dock, on the water. It's amazing. And then, um, people close their cottages and we got a little bit of the local, local flavor. And uh, the more time that we spent there, the more that we realized that, and especially as a highly sensitive person, you're very in tune with the vibe of the place that you're in.

Kyra: Yeah. And that can be environmental and that can also be from the people. And unfortunately, it's a very hateful place, Ms. Koka, it's a very hateful, fearful place. That's the vibration of the people there. Um, people are very much, uh, They don't like outsiders, they don't like people who aren't born and raised there, and they especially hate people from Toronto.

Kyra: Oh, wow. So that didn't really bode well for us at the school that we were sort of hanging. We were like, even if we don't like anyone else, at least it's a great school. Well, as it turns out, the only other sort of friend option for our child, um, was a, uh, like just a horrible mean girl. And her mom and her sister both worked at the school, so there was no repercussion.

Kyra: Oh. So my, my child, Juniper was in a situation where, um, You know in the movie the Disney movie Lady in the Tramp, yeah. Where those Siamese cats are always like knocking things over and then blaming it on lady. It was like that situation for Juniper all the time. Like this horrible girl was just making it look like she hadn't done anything but it was on Juniper.

Kyra: It was awful and there was no repercussion, but there was no repercussion for the girl and there was no recourse for us because, oh man, it's people who work at the school. So, um, yeah, I mean it just got progressively worse. Um, I mean, I could share any number of crazy stories. Like I was literally, I was giving blood at one point cuz I thought like, I wanna be part of this community.

Kyra: So I literally went to give blood and I was sitting in the chair with the needle in my arm and the nurse turns to me and says, you don't belong here. No, she actually said that to you. I'm, you know, you're kind of turned upside down. So that you're like, I'm immobile. Yeah. And she whispered it to me, looking right at me, and I was like, she doesn't even know that I like, how do you even sense that I'm not from here?

Kyra: She said, look behind. You see all those people lined up. They all belong here. They're here donating blood in the name of somebody from the community who just passed away. What are you here for? Oh my gosh. Wow. Wow. That's, I mean, I could share dozens of stories of what this town is like. Okay,

Jessi: so at what point were you guys like, and we're

Kyra: out.

Kyra: So then the pandemic, so what happened was, oh, right. Things erupted at the school. Mm-hmm. We pulled Juniper out in January of 2020. Oh my gosh. We put Juniper in a, in a public school actually for a month. And it was actually a really good situation and they made a bunch of friends right away. Um, and then March came and everything shut down.

Kyra: Oh my gosh. So we were sort of at the point where we had started planning another cross-country move and then the pandemic hit. Now as it turns out, if you're gonna ride out a pandemic, a cabin in the woods is like a pretty decent, it's not a bad idea place. As I mentioned in my article too, I should also say during that, that time, the first little bit that we were there, we had like our well ran dry, so we didn't have any running water for three weeks.

Kyra: Like no toilets, no sink, like nothing, no showers. Um, we had a flood that damaged a bunch of our furniture. Um, the first winter that we were there, we didn't have a heat source, so it was like nine degrees Celsius inside our house. We had been told that the heat source was really solid and it wasn't.

Kyra: Anyway, things like that with the locals too, where you have to, we found out the hard way that you have to tell when you're buying firewood. You have to tell them that you want dry wood because they'll just take advantage of the people who aren't from there and sell you wet. Oh, a season's worth of wet wood is what we got.

Jessi: Wow. Yeah. Oh my. And that takes like months to dry out, doesn't it? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. Wow. Wow.

Kyra: Yeah, so we, so it wasn't for us.

Jessi: I mean, is it for anyone that's, that's insane. That's like, that's like out of a movie, Kara. Mm-hmm. That's, that's crazy. Wow. Yeah. You're gonna have to write a book about this someday.

Jessi: That's just

Kyra: nuts. I have actually written a memoir about the experience, and it's one of those things where, and I'm, you and I, you and I have touched on this idea already about this topic. It's like, how far away from an experience do you need to be in order to talk about it? And is it okay to talk about it when you're in the middle of understanding what it was?

Kyra: And as of right now, the draft, like I have a third draft of this memoir, and it's still a bit like it's too fresh. Too close. Yeah, it's too fresh. I feel like I have to have an understanding fully of what the next phase was afterwards, before writing it down. But uh, It's also like, I definitely hope that it'll be released at some point.

Kyra: Yeah.

Jessi: And there's even a little bit of P T S D. Like, I, I feel like my, my ability to trust people, my ability to even trust myself would feel really weak after something like that.

Kyra: Absolutely. Yeah. I think, um, not to jump ahead in the storyline, but we, we wrote out the, the pandemic there and then basically as soon as we could get out, we left and move back across the country.

Kyra: And now we're living, um, I literally did like a political map of Canada to figure out who votes in what direction in, and like, I was like, who are the most progressive left-leaning people in the country? And let me move there because after being in the pandemic with all of these anti-vax people and not like, no, you know, no hate, but just that sort of came with a lot of people who were also racist and homophobic and it was a whole thing, right?

Kyra: Mm-hmm. Um, attached to that part of the world that we were living in. So we chose this super progressive island to move to, and now I'm in this place where there is not only. No longer a vibration of fear where I'm living, but there's a vibration of love and joy and happiness where I'm living. People will look you in the eye and give you the most genuine smile when you're passing them on the sidewalk.

Kyra: People are just like kind and like wanting to help other people and very accepting. Mm-hmm. And to speak to the P T S D part. Yeah. It's like I really want to be able to enjoy it, but I'm like, why are you being so nice to me right now? Like what's, that's your motive.

Jessi: Exactly. That would be hard to trust people again.

Jessi: Yeah. That would be, Hmm. That would be hard. That'd be so hard. I know. It's like, especially being in a new place where you don't have any connections and then the world was just bonkers the last few years. Like just people's worst sides came out. Um, and. Yeah, especially if, if there's like opposing views on different things and everyone was just so fearful.

Jessi: So fearful. So I, I can imagine how that would've been really enhanced during that time. And I'm so glad that you're at least in a place where you feel there's a lot more compassion and love and just genuine humanness and openness and availability to make connection, like that's so important. Like, ugh, regardless of views, I think at the human level, like we need to be able to smile at each other and be open and accepting, like, that's so

Kyra: critical.

Kyra: Yeah. And I, I also wanna take a minute to ask you about your experience. I don't know to what extent you've spoken about it on the podcast yet, but I know we're having this conversation because oddly there's some alignment between what you experienced and what I experienced.

Jessi: Yeah. Yeah. That's so funny.

Jessi: So when you were. I think it was when you were first telling your story to me, I was like, oh my gosh, that's so hilarious. Because we actually, ours was, I do have some, um, conclusions around it. I haven't fully processed it, but I, I do feel, and I have shared on the podcast a bit, I wish, I think I, yeah, I definitely shared a bit about it, but for us, our move was totally 80% an emotional reaction to what was going on, um, during 2020.

Jessi: So, uh, for me, I felt similar in that our community was, uh, not very accepting of alternative views and it was very intense. Um, and so, and I also, I just, I don't like having a lot of people around me. I don't know. I'm sure there's, you know, other senses are the same way. Like I can feel the emotions of like every single person I can feel their energy, all of that.

Jessi: And the city we were in was very fearful. Mm-hmm. Um, and I just felt that it was so oppressive. So oppressive. And I'm a very, uh, naturally, I'm a very optimistic person. And so for me, I. Really afraid, um, during Covid, but I felt the fear around me and it was just so overwhelming. And, uh, I was like, I'm out.

Jessi: Like I've always, we've always talked and dreamed my husband's like a man of the earth. Like, I don't know else to describe him. He has like this long history of farmers in his blood and so he's just like, he's, I mean, you, you meet him and you wouldn't necessarily think that like he's a surfer and he, I don't know, you know, he went, he's, he lived in the suburbs his whole life by the coast and everything, but he just has this like sturdiness to him that's so grounded and, uh, I didn't un, I didn't realize how deep the, like, obsession with land went for him.

Jessi: Mm-hmm. But we started just kind of talking about moving lightly and, and I was, because of Covid very open to going more inland, which I had never before been, cuz I'm like, I need to see the ocean. I need to smell the ocean. I need to be able to walk to the ocean. That's like the type of person I am. But I was just so done with the coastal communities and what was going on there.

Jessi: Um, and so he's like, well, let's like, you know, check out some of these country areas so inland from us, there's, it's like a total change. You like crossover this one area and then it's like vineyards and horse people and just very like down to earth people. Um, and yeah. And so we, for us we're like, we just want space.

Jessi: Like we don't even really care about political views. Like we just want space. So that regardless of how people feel about things, like it doesn't impact us. That's kinda where we're at. Totally. We just like, don't wanna be a part of this. Uh, so we went out there and we found this, um, piece of property that blew my mind away because my understanding of inland here in California, it's like the coastlines are gorgeous, but as soon as you go inland, it's like another state.

Jessi: It's deserty. It's. No offense to anyone that lives inland, but like I, I had very strong feelings of not wanting to go there. Um, I'm not a desert person. I really struggle to see the beauty of it. Like, it's just not for me. Like, I need water, I need green, I need blue. Like I need a lot of those kinds of colors.

Jessi: But this one little house, um, was just amazing. It was on this like one acre prop, or actually an acre and a half property, and it had all these gorgeous old oak trees and it was, uh, it was in January, but or February. So it was very green cuz a lot of rain had come in. So the ground was covered with all these clovers.

Jessi: It was, it looked like a meadow. I was like, what? Like, this is here. And so I, you know, I felt very expanded and I was like, well, if this is what it looks like, I can totally do this. Um, so my husband's like, yes. You know, my god, her. So we put an offer on, it was like a really fast thing. We did it in like 24 hours, which now I'm like, I'm in, in, so in human design, I'm an, I'm an emotional authority, so I should be never too, never, never, never, never, never make a decision that fast.

Jessi: My husband is a generator so he can do a gut response, but he and I weren't on the same page. And, you know, it needs to be a partnership decision. So it was a very stressful experience. And now I know why, because we weren't, well, maybe we were, but I, it wasn't in alignment with my authority. So we purchased the land.

Jessi: Um, we had tons of inspectors walk through the house. We thought we were good. We moved in and in three months I was super sick, like super, super, super sick. And I, we found out that we had basically the house that had tons of just old water damage that wasn't, you couldn't really see it. It was like in the roof and different things like that.

Jessi: Um, and so long story short, we had to leave because I couldn't. I was so sick and my husband actually ended up being really sick as well. He's just such a grounded person, you would never know. Mm-hmm. But we tested him and he was actually worse than me. Um, but I'm so sensitive. Like I can't even, like Yeah.

Jessi: Function. Um, and so, yeah, that was really our story there. And as far as like moving to the country, I just felt so depressed. I've never been depressed in my life to my knowledge. And I just felt like my whole body just dropped. And at first I thought it was like, oh, I'm like coming down off the high of being, you know, in the buzzy coastal cities and it's just the quietness and mm-hmm.

Jessi: And so it's like, oh, this is healthy, this is good. But then I was like, I'm just like, I, I just had no motivation. I was so, so sad. I was just like really isolating myself in an unhealthy way. And I'm an introvert and I love alone time, but this was like too much. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think part of it was that I was very, in a very toxic environment, physically, but also there was just like, it was, it was too much.

Jessi: And now I know my human design. I'm a valley, so I need to be, I need to have like one foot in to the activity and one foot out. And this was like way too far for me. Like the dream of living under the trees in a meadow near horse. We had horses across from us. I mean, there was so many things. There's a vineyard across the way.

Jessi: Like it was gorgeous, you know, but I was just so like, so. I just missed the ocean and this is me being such a baby. It was a 30 minute drive ky, like it wasn't that far, let's be honest, but I'm such an ocean baby that like it wasn't in the air. I couldn't smell it, and I just got so depressed. I like never drove to the ocean and I had to drive through my old hometown, which wasn't a good thing for me.

Jessi: I have a lot of PTSD about that, so there's just a lot of layers that I didn't realize would come into play. And the idea of living in the country, even though on paper it looked so good, it ended up being an absolute like mess for us. Like all these things came for, there were rats. How are they? No, they were rats.

Jessi: Like, like mice and rats that would come into like, under our house. And I'm, I'm like you, I'm like city suburb girl. I'm like, I'm sorry, what? There's rodents like, uh, there were huge ass spiders like everywhere. I'm just, I'm too squeamish. Like that's not, and I didn't wanna like man up. I didn't really want to be that kind of person.

Jessi: My husband and his family, they're that way. They're just like, like my mother-in-law, she's so much stronger than me. Like it's crazy. Like she, she loved that land, so I felt bad for her. No, but I'm just, I came to realize and came to be okay with verbalizing, like, no, this isn't actually me. I don't need to become someone else.

Jessi: Like Jessie in her core is a suburb city girl. Like I don't. I like to be just outside of the city is what I realize and I need to be near the ocean. So we ended up, uh, moving out and lived with our in-laws for a bit, which is a whole story. And then, which actually was really beautiful, but, you know, challenges with that.

Jessi: Yeah. And now we're back by the coast renting and ended up deciding to rent out that house. We like, did a huge remediation and made sure it was safe and healthy. Um, and everyone's like, well why didn't you move back? I'm like, cuz it wasn't for me. It just wasn't. Yeah. Um, not many people understand it.

Jessi: They're like, it's a beautiful house, it's a beautiful area. Um, like it's 30 minutes from the beach. Why can't you just get over that? But it's so important to know what you need and I think environment is so huge for us as sensitives, wouldn't you?

Kyra: Absolutely. Yeah. And I can relate to that, you know, where we were living, um, same thing.

Kyra: Like gorgeous. So beautiful. We were a li little cabin in the woods. Like, uh, we had a view of the lake, so, so pretty. Um, but the winters are extremely hard where we were living, so from like November 1st to April 30th, pretty much there's snow on the ground. There's no leaves on the trees. It's just like you can take a picture in black and white and it looks exactly the same as the actual picture that you take in color.

Kyra: Like there's just no color anywhere. And I felt I could physically feel myself wilting living there. Yeah. Between the people and the environment. In the winter. It was just, I just was like a shadow of myself. So stark. Yeah. So I think that, I think it's true. I think that as sensitive people were. We're very in tune with the environment.

Kyra: Mm-hmm. And therefore, something that isn't a match is going to affect us really strongly. Mm-hmm. And the the awesome part is that then something that is a really great match is going to affect us really strongly. So moving back into a place that's a better match for you is going to be really great. Um, but I think the, sort of, the paradox is that it's also really hard for us to move because we're so

Jessi: sensitive, so damn For us it's so exhausting moving is like, Ugh.

Jessi: It's so hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Kyra: Yeah. And I think we, like I've never lived near the ocean before. The reason that we chose the island is because we, I was like, well, if I'm gonna pick anywhere, you know, obviously the, there was the political aspect and then it was, I really wanna have the experience of living near the ocean.

Kyra: Mm. And um, It's wild. Just, you know, Canada's an enormous country obviously, but like all of the foliage is completely different. Like the birds are different. It's just, I thought, you know, I'm moving within the same country, so how different can it be? And it's, I mean, it is so different here in so many ways, in the best ways.

Kyra: But also that made the transition hard too because it felt I was, I was anticipating it being somewhat familiar and despite the fact that there are like the same grocery stores and the same product, you know, there's still that question mark where you're, you're learning about, about a new environment.

Kyra: And also for us, this move was not the easiest move either. We kind of, during the pandemic, the prices of real estate skyrocketed where we were in rural areas, which was great for us. Um, cuz we were like, okay, well we'll sell high and then we will head on out. And we listed our place and like, this is a bit of a pattern for us, but we listed our place in that same week.

Kyra: Like the economy tanked again. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So it just took forever for us to sell our house. And the end, the vision was like, we're gonna sell our house, we're gonna buy a place. School starts in September, we're gonna have everything. We'll be all moved in, we'll have everything's figured out. Perfect.

Kyra: Cause we were starting this process in March. No. So it, it was like in order to sign up at the school, cuz we've, again, we found another great school program for Juniper. This one, a public school with 1500 people so that if you have a problem with one, you've got 1,499 others to choose from. Um, yeah. But you have to have like an address in the catchment in order.

Kyra: So Juniper auditioned and then, you know, we couldn't necessarily sign up until we had an address cuz we couldn't sell the house. It was like, wow, this huge sort of kerfuffle we rented. We finally wound up renting an Airbnb, like a long-term Airbnb. And, um, the day before we, we were set to leave, like we had our plane tickets, they canceled, um, subsequent months of our booking.

Kyra: So we had a place where we could arrive to, but then we had to immediately, as soon as our feet hit the ground, start finding a place to move into after that. Um, so it was just kind of one thing after the next, you know, we didn't, couldn't sell the house for what we thought we could sell it for. Interest rates are rising.

Kyra: Just this soup of factors that has led us to like still be in a rental place when all I wanna do is just buy our house and like just settle in. Mm-hmm. Oh gosh. Yeah. Um. And so I know you and I were going back and forth cuz you originally wanted to have this conversation like a couple months ago and I was like, no, no, no, let's book it for end of January cuz my life will make sense by the end of January.

Kyra: And, and the unfortunate thing is that I'm like still in basically the same, you know, position. But I, I think that this is a lesson that I, you know, when the universe just forces you to learn a lesson that you don't wanna learn.

Jessi: Oh no. That never happens to me. It hasn't been the last three years of my life at all.

Kyra: Never. Yeah. Oh, so this is, this is the lesson is that, um, you know, you, in order, I think the universe is only going to give me any kind of stability or certainty once I sort of, uh, fully. Like, let go and just open my palm and be like, okay, I'm not actually in control of any of this. I get it. I get it. I'm not the one driving the ship.

Kyra: You know?

Jessi: Yeah. That's a hard, that's a really hard lesson of, and it's also like that balance of, because I, I think this is what I really wanted to talk about is there's so much false reality in our world right now, right? Whether it's social media or even just how people are presented. We don't talk about this messy in between.

Jessi: Like both you and I are renting right now. Like we're, we're far from our ideal of what we want. We're closer, but it's still like, ugh. Like when can I just settle? I just wanna feel relaxed. I wanna feel like everything is under control. I know where I'm headed, things feel settled. Um, but it's this interesting tension that we're currently living in that I think.

Jessi: It's like a, a holding zone for a lesson. It's a holding zone for mm-hmm. Like, we're being refined right now, and sometimes it's hard. I know for me, it's hard to see what's going on when I'm right in the middle of it. Like, I can look back to last year and be like, oh, I'm starting to see why, or I'm starting to see some, at least some reasons for what went down.

Jessi: But like right now, I can't necessarily see why this is happening. You know? I just know it's happening and I'm moving forward and just trying to stay positive. Mm-hmm. But it's, it's, it's hard. It's hard to explain to people too that have observed you. I know you and I are on the same page of like, we're big dreamers.

Jessi: We take big leaps, we go for it. And people around us are going, that's risky. Why are you doing that? Just stay put. Like, don't do that. Um, that's so scary. Now you're making me stressed. I'm fearful for you. Like, can't you just be a normal person, please And no, like, we're here to have adventures. We're here to try things out and.

Jessi: I think that's, that takes a lot of courage, but it also takes, um, some idealism as well. You know, like we're, we're able to see the possibility, but when, when the reality falls short of what we were dreaming, then, then we st I don't know about you, but I start to hear those voices get louder of the people around me and I start to question myself and go, oh my gosh, did, am I just a drama queen?

Jessi: Am I just trying to like, create chaos or, you know, um, stress out my husband or whatever, whatever voice I'm hearing, depending on the person that I let in. And so I think for me it's been a lot of journey of just saying no. Like I'm learning to trust myself regardless of my circumstances, regardless of how my choices end up.

Jessi: Like it's my journey and I'm, of course I own my mistakes. Um, like I don't blame them on anyone else. Um, but I also. I'm coming to be okay with being imperfect, which I think is sensitive. That's a hard one because we we're such analyzers, right? And we feel like we can just outthink it. Like, ah, just strategize.

Jessi: Just a note that it'll go perfectly. Like you just said. Like, okay, we're gonna move it this time, da, everything's just gonna work out. And then it just doesn't, and we kind of get all flustered and we don't know what to do. We get overwhelmed and then we have our meltdowns, and then we like sit there on the ground going, okay, well here I am.

Jessi: What do I do moving forward? And that's the place where I think, God, the universe wants us because we're our own worst enemies with our perfectionism, with our plans. And God's like, I created you to be very analytical and gifted, but it's not for this, it's for other reasons. So I need you to let go here and trust me and uh, and ultimately build up the trust in ourselves that like.

Jessi: For me, I like God's a he. And so, you know, I hear him saying like, I made you to be able to handle this, Jess, like, I made you to be able to walk through this. Um, I don't know why yet. You know, maybe it is to pass on stability to others. Um, or maybe it's just to be an example, you know, I'm here as a six two, so I'm here to embody a lot of shit.

Jessi: Mm-hmm. And walk through stuff and be an example for others and be an inspiration. Um, and that means walking through the fire a lot. But, uh, that's kind of been my biggest takeaway is that like, I now know that I can go through really hellish situations, both physically, emotionally, mentally, relationally, uh, environmentally and come out the other side and be okay.

Jessi: And that's pretty, that's pretty rad conclusion. I don't wanna do it again. I wouldn't voluntarily choose to do that again, but I now know that I can do it. And that's a huge takeaway.

Kyra: Yeah. I think you're, there's so much there. I think. You're absolutely right cuz of the many things that I've learned, one of them is that there's a very good chance that I have been living my life for this end destination of being like, now I'm settled, now I have things figured out.

Kyra: And what if we're just living in cycles and there is no end destination and, the journey just keeps going. Right? And I really had to come to terms with the fact, like we've moved, my husband and I have been together almost 20 years. We've moved every five years, four or five years during that time.

Kyra: Maybe that's just our pattern. maybe we're just gonna always move every five years and can I be okay with that? You know? Um, there's always a reason why we do it, right. So, That's one thing I think also I found really helpful recently. I'm crazy about Martha back. I don't know if you know Martha back at all.

Kyra: Mm. She's amazing. You could read any one of her books and just, you, you can't go wrong. She's Oprah's life coach, if that says anything about how smart she is. But so she has moved around quite a bit, um, as well. And just based on intuition, like I think I need to be here now. I think I need to be there now.

Kyra: I think this feels right. And her wife and she have a podcast together and they were talking about this topic recently and um, her wife, who's also a wonderful writer, Rowan, Megan was saying it's like you. You make the choice to move or to do something different because the culture doesn't fit you and you wanna create something outside the culture that is for you.

Kyra: But then so quickly the culture is so insidious that the thing that you build outside of the culture, you're tempted to make it look as close to the culture as possible. And you start measuring the new thing against the metrics of success of the culture, right? So you start to go, oh, oh yeah, I moved because I don't believe in, you know, the cookie cutter house and the, this life that everybody else has.

Kyra: But then I see my friend who just paid off her mortgage cuz she stayed in the same place for the last 20 years. And you're like, maybe I should have done that.

Jessi: You know? That looks nice.

Kyra: Yeah. So it's easy to start you, you have to sort of take a step back and go like, okay. But there was a sacrifice inherent in making this decision to part ways with the culture.

Kyra: So maybe I can't have it all. You know, can I, can I find ways to nurture myself and give myself a sense of stability in the chaos? A hundred percent. Will that stability look like what the culture has told me it should look like? No, it won't, right? Mm-hmm. The other thing that Martha Beck said was that when you're moving, you have to think of it as if you're like dropping a bouncy ball, like a really squishy, bouncy ball.

Kyra: So you're dropping, dropping, dropping, and then the ball hits and it kind of squishes a little bit, and then it starts to bounce up again. So we think like, we're gonna arrive at the place, we're gonna be like, sweet, I love this place. I'm here to succeed. And then you like, move on forward. No, she's like, for a while you're gonna be in the squish.

Kyra: Right? I love that. You're, you're squishing at the bottom. You're getting ready to building enough, you know, momentum that eventually you can rise back up again. And that's in my hard moments during this move, I've been like, I'm in the squish. I'm just in the squish.

Jessi: Yeah. And the swish can be a while too.

Kyra: It can be. I think she says like a solid year is like a good

Jessi: expectation. That is so good to hear. Yeah, I think I would agree with that. I was actually gonna ask you that, like, how long do you think it takes to really kind of settle into a new place? And there's also the difference between settling into a new place that you know, you're not gonna move for a while.

Jessi: Like you buy a home, you're like, we're here. My kid's going to school, you know, to junior high and high school or whatever for the next time. Or it's like, we're here. We might move in five years. That's, those are two different places, right? Yeah. Very different mindsets. Um, similar like if you're renting versus buying, you know, there's, when you're renting, there's always that like, oh, should I put up those curtains, but I have to take 'em down.

Jessi: Should I add that thing up? But I'm gonna have to take it down, or I'm have to ask permission or, you know, it's very different than buying a home and being like, this is mine. Let's go

Kyra: a hundred percent. Yeah. And again, like as a sensitive person, so we moved to this place where it's just housing is impossible to find.

Kyra: Hmm. And so the place that we're in right now is a long-term Airbnb, like, and Airbnb during the summer, rented to us through the winter. Um, and so like the furniture is in tower. And like my clothes are in some weird dresser, you know? Yeah. And we moved all of our stuff, um, like our, we had a shipping container full of our stuff, so we have our stuff physically in the building and like every now and then, we're just like opening boxes and being like, I remember you old friend, oh, cheat.

Kyra: You know, like, somebody asked me today for a picture of myself, like a childhood picture. I'm like, I don't know where the fuck that is right now. Like, you know, so it's like even another level of, you know, when you're renting a place, normally you at least bring your own furniture in and you have all of your stuff and you're using your own coffee mugs and, you know.

Kyra: Yeah. So it's, that itself has been really disorienting for me. Which again, I think for like my husband who's not a sensitive person is like, whatever, like, doesn't matter. He's the coffee mugs. Like, who cares? He doesn't. But for me, it's like, I'm like, the heck, this is not my bath mat, you know?

Jessi: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jessi: The texture of this is off, the color of this is off. That light doesn't work. It's too bright. I need, yeah, a hundred percent. It's, it's funny because like, I sense in you, like, we're both very adventurous and we do appreciate change, but we wanna be able to control what we're moving out of and what we're moving into.

Jessi: Um, and that's, that's a hard balance to walk, you know? I like, I love traveling, for example, but I hate traveling at the same time. Like, yeah. I, and it's so, it's such gold when you find a place that you're like, oh my gosh, like 80% of this place I love. And I actually feel like I can rest here and be comfortable.

Jessi: I'm not worried about like, the state of the sheets and the air quality and the, you know, like I'm, and I'm, I've got the health nerd too, so I've got like, yeah, yeah. All these layers of, I call it the responsibility of knowledge, but just there's so much to think about. Um, that I could drive myself mad if I go there.

Jessi: Yeah. So it is, it's also like mental strength and control of like almost filtering your own sensitivity of saying like, okay, I know that down the road I would have done this with this space, but I understand I don't have the capacity or the control to do it, so I'm gonna learn to kind of just, I don't know if you do this.

Jessi: I kind of blinder it. Like I just decide I'm not gonna notice it anymore. Like, I just kind of, and I don't always have success with this. I know I'm like overloaded when everything starts to hit me, but when I'm in a good place, I can kind of put like horse blinders on where I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna zero in.

Jessi: I'm gonna make like the house we're in right now. We, we, uh, got rid of all of our furniture from our house. Oh, right. We moved with one piece of furniture and we bought a bed. A desk, a chair, and two stools. That's it. That's what's in our house right now. It's empty. Otherwise, like our neighbors think we're legit insane.

Jessi: Um, but I knew in my heart, as soon as we moved in and a couple, like a couple months in, I was like, oh, we're not staying here. I just knew off the bat, like yeah. Um, we were misled on how healthy this home is. And so I knew we weren't gonna say, so I'm like, I'm not gonna buy furniture. We're gonna toss, like, literally have to toss in six months.

Jessi: So we're moving again in, in literally like two weeks. Uh, but it's, I've had to just make my little nooks, like I have my little desk, I have my, I finally put my curtains. I'm like, okay, just right here. I feel good. I have my candle lit, I have my things, but the rest of my office is baron in boxes, you know?

Jessi: Right. And like, but it's, it's creating those little areas where I'm like, right here in this chair, I can relax and I'm my sensitive self and I'm okay. You know? Or my bed is like, My bed is my other safety zone where I'm just like, I could do everything for my bed. Cause I just feel good there, you know?

Jessi: But the rest of the house is like ridiculous, you know? Yeah. Um, so it, I think the key ha is like finding those places you can kind of ground and root and, and nest in, in a way. Um, but it is, it's like a constant battle to not be like, Ugh, like this, there's so many things I would change or that I need in this moment.

Jessi: But, um, I think that's what does create some resilience, you know, is being able to say like, I know how to navigate these weird tension moments. Um, and that's also how you and I are leaders, you know? Mm-hmm. We, we've been called to lead and to share in the sense of community. And so the best way to lead is walking through it yourself and being like, well, I have some, I have some legit recommendations because I've actually had to do it.

Jessi: Yeah. I've had to survive in it for nine months, a year, whatever. So, I mean, for you as you're in that rental and the furniture's not even yours, like what have you done to really find that place of sanity within it?

Kyra: So for me, it's all about physical comfort in situations like this. Um, I, my logical capacity, one of the lessons that I'm learning during this time, and I, I feel like often the universe backs us into a corner so that we can learn specific lessons.

Kyra: So there are, like, I have a curriculum right now. I'm like, I get it. Okay. This is what I'm supposed to be working on. And one of the things is like my tendency to logic my way through things, as we've talked about is, is not, it doesn't benefit me anymore. Like I need to put it in a box and be like, I will take you out occasionally, but uh, I don't need you right now.

Kyra: Um, because in addition to. Like this is a whole other conversation. I know we're running out of time here, but like professionally, things have changed for me. So much has taken place that I'm like, I don't even think I wanna be doing this thing anymore. Mm-hmm. And this actually feels really good to me.

Kyra: And what does that mean? If I'm not doing this anymore and I'm going back to that thing, or I'm starting something new, like, does that make me flaky? You know? Mm-hmm. But instead, I'm just sort of taking the logic away and just being like, if this feels right right now, then I'm just going with it. And when I get really scared and in my head, I have to provide myself with physical comfort.

Kyra: So that's my number one thing that I've been doing is just how can I comfort myself in this moment? The second thing is that as a writer, I really do try to keep it front of mind that. the wildest parts are gonna be the best, uh, material.

Kyra: Oh, yeah. So you have to sort of like, look straight into it and be like, what am I feeling right now? And take note of that. And even if you can't share it immediately to store it away for later. And so, And I'm sure you're the same way, being so sensitive. A lot of that is just even in h in in the feeling, in the exact feeling of the energy that's taking place.

Kyra: So what I've noticed is that I have this cycle that I go through where things get really intense, energetically for me, and I get incredibly frustrated, almost like a little, little kid who's like, they're almost at that next milestone, but they're, they're not there yet. So they're just like misbehaving.

Kyra: Mm-hmm. And I hate that feeling because I'm like, why can't I just master this thing? The energy gets like frenetic and I have to go through that in order to come out the other side. And when I do, I am so much more confident. I'm so much more brave. I'm so much more resilient. Things calm down, I can finally share again.

Kyra: Um, but you have to go through those a couple of times to realize that you're not just like sitting there forever

Jessi: in it. Yeah. Well, it's that, it's, I think it's our natural, like I'm learning patience is one of my things. Mm-hmm. So when I'm in that holding zone, is what I would call that mm-hmm. Where you're just like, ah, like I'm banging on the door, but it's locked still.

Jessi: Yes. Okay. And you're just holding there. It's almost like a hamster, right. Running around of like, I almost create my own, I wanna feel like I'm moving. Yeah. So I'll just like, kind of almost create my own internal chaos so that it's like, oh, well at least I'm working through something, you know? Mm-hmm.

Jessi: Or like if I Interesting. Bring my emotions. If I really like lean into my emotions. Um, and like, yeah, I think there's like health and unhealth in it. Um, I'm learning to like, to lean into my emotions, so that creates a lot of, you know, experiences. But there also I think is this tendency for me to just kind of, To be honest, to create a little drama inside myself because I'm just like, I can't, another example is I hate driving behind someone on the freeway.

Jessi: Like I just, it just, Hmm. I just, it's, I can't, I just can't do it. And so I'll change lanes a lot just so that like, I'm not driving behind someone and I'm not getting there any faster. Like I'm really not, but it's that movement that makes me feel like I am, it's that movement that makes me feel like I'm free.

Jessi: It's that movement that's like, oh, no one can tell me what to do. I don't have to just, I'm not a follower. I'm, I'm definitely an initiator, a leader. Like I just, yeah. I don't like to follow, and I think that feeling of holding, it's, to me, I can feel trapped. Mm-hmm. Like I am having. Follow someone or wait on someone, even if there is no one.

Jessi: Mm-hmm. It just feels that way. So I'll create some sort of like, movement, it's like side lateral movement, you know, to just try and like, feel like I'm alive again. You know? And, um, that that's a whole thing, you know? And I've had to face that of like, why can't I just be still Jess? Like, why can't you just hold it's and just, and, uh, rest.

Jessi: That's why I've been doing this whole month. It's just like, there's a lot of energy of people saying, you know, forward movement, all this stuff. I'm like, I'm just, I don't feel a direction at the moment, so I'm just gonna actually chill. And it's been such a weird feeling. So weird. So I think there's so much that comes forward in these places of tension that we're really faced with.

Jessi: Um, I don't wanna say they're like bad sides of us, they're just. I think it's the, the child side of us that, you know, is coming forward that it's like, oh, we experienced this as a child and didn't know what to do with it. Now it's coming back up again. So you could call it trauma, you could call it wounding, you can call whatever.

Jessi: Um, but these reactions that we have in response to, you know, childhood experiences, they come forward in those moments of tension and quiet and stillness and trap or block, whatever it feels like. Um, and it's, that's what makes it uncomfortable though. Cause then you're like, oh, I gotta face that and look at it and I don't wanna, but it's, it's tough, but it's good, you know?

Jessi: And like you said, you come out so much more aware of who you are and I just feel like you grow as a dimensional being from that experience.

Kyra: Absolutely. Yeah. I feel like it's, um, like my, I. Gaining progressively a wider field of vision every time that it happens. Mm-hmm. And then I can look back and think, well, I thought I knew all of these things, but I can see how narrow my perception was at that point.

Kyra: Um, and I think what you've talked about already a little bit is this idea that like, people will sort of look at, you know, you moved away, you did a thing, it didn't work out. You had to move to another place that will, will that work out? Maybe it won't, you know, and people will go like, well, why? Like, was it worth it?

Kyra: And potentially there are people listening who are thinking about making a move and they're like, well, what if I go and it sucks and something horrible happens, like happened to these people, right. Um, now granted of course we have like first world problems. There were, there are many worst things that could have happened to us, but I am extremely high maintenance.

Kyra: So there's that. Um, but I think the thing is like, There's no part of me that thinks that was a mistake. I wish I hadn't done that. Mm. The parts about Juniper suffering, I wish that we could have avoided that. At the same time, I understand that our job as parents, I understand from a logical perspective that our job as parents is not to prevent bad things from happening, but to be there while bad things happen, to help prepare them for when they're older and bad things are gonna happen, you know?

Kyra: And h how do you get through them and do you feel like supported and seen and understood? And I think there are many parts of that that I failed on during that experience. And there are many things that I would do differently. Those I regret, but I will not make that same mistake again. And potentially, you know, we learned those lessons when I had a little kid.

Kyra: And then when the big guns come at, you know, as a teenager, I'm that much more prepared to support a teenager, right? Yeah. So do I regret taking this leap of faith and having it turn out the way that it did? No, not at all. I see a hundred percent why that needed to happen, and so much growth came as a result.

Kyra: So if you're thinking, should I do this? What if it doesn't work out? There is no not working out. Like you win either way. You know, I read a Deepak Chopra quote recently that I'll, I'll butcher, but, or maybe I can I find it on my desktop here? I wonder because it was so perfect for this. Yeah, I can, it's right here.

Kyra: I'll pull it up. If you obsess over whether you're making the right decision, you're basically assuming that the universe will reward you for one thing and punish you for another. The universe has no fixed agenda. Once you make any decision, it works around that decision. There's no right or wrong, only a series of possibilities that shift with each thought, feeling, and action that you experience.

Jessi: Mm, it all leads to the same place. Yeah. I love that. That takes so much pressure off, so much pressure off, and I think that's where, where the pain is, is that you have to live this certain life that you're getting, those you're living. And if that is the voice in your head, then you are being dominated by other people's expectations.

Jessi: That's really what that is. Right? So it's, it's so huge to really evaluate yourself and say, I love what you were saying, of just, I'm setting my logical mind aside. And what you're doing is leaning into your body, which is, I really think what this next season of humanity is about is coming back to the body and just saying, okay, what's going on in here?

Jessi: This is what I can trust. Our mind is, is our mind can be captured so easily, whereas our body is always true. And if your body is saying, this is where I want you to go, regardless of whether it's logical, regardless of whether your mother-in-law agrees with it, your dad agrees with it, your sister thinks you're crazy, your friend's like, no, settle down with me.

Jessi: You just let all that go and you just see it in its most pure form. And I agree with you. I wouldn't take back anything that happened to us. In fact, I'm like, it's actually all turned out for good. We have this incredible asset now we have like a million dollar with home. I never thought we would have that.

Jessi: Just chilling. We're renting it out. We have incredible renters. Like everything actually turned out in a really beautiful way. And I'm still getting to live by the coast. Like what? You know, like, yeah, it was crazy. But if you had told me, you know, like three years ago that we would have an incredible investment property and we'd be living by the coast in this beautiful, really exclusive city.

Jessi: I would've been like, nah, you're baloney. There's no way that's gonna happen, but here I am. And so it always, it always works out. Um, and I think that's the biggest, biggest lesson is to just trust that as you're moving forward, things will fall in line. Even if they feel crazy in the moment, trust that it will work out and it, and you'll look back and see all the blessings that came forward through it.

Jessi: So I guess my last question for you is, I really think gratitude and thankfulness for where you are, even in the min in those moments of tension and frustration are so key. And I know you're big on that too. How do you really lean into that? What do you do to bring forward those, um, not fake positivity, but just honest, genuine gratitude in hard moments?

Jessi: Yeah. I think for

Kyra: me, I think gratitude isn't my thing. Which I know is a controversial opinion. And the reason for that being I think myself, um, there's probably a lot of people out there that are like me. Maybe I'm alone in this, I don't know. Mm-hmm. If you were raised in like a hyper religious environment mm-hmm.

Kyra: Um, there's kind of this thing that you're with, like I was, which, um, you're raised with this idea that like, you are a re you are a sinner, you are worthless, but this person died for your sins. And so you should feel grateful all the time just for every breath you take because you are a worthless loser.

Kyra: And so gratitude becomes very problematic because every time I hear about gratitude, I think I should, I have to be grateful for every little thing that I have because I don't deserve any of it. That's where gratitude sits for me. Mm. The other place that gratitude sits for me because of some early trauma is, If I'm not grateful for something enough, it'll be taken away and I'll regret the moments where I wasn't grateful for it.

Kyra: So for me, gratitude is really charged. Hmm. And I think people don't talk about that a lot because gratitude is, is often treated as this silver bullet. And it is, for many people, like Oprah says that it works. You know? So we can just leave that there, right? If Oprah thinks so. I am positive that it works, um, but for me it doesn't.

Kyra: So what I need to do instead of gratitude is I come to a place of just, uh, acceptance and noticing the present and, um, S again, Martha Beck says se sense, drenching, I think she calls it. So just like being in the moment and even looking at the, you know, tricky feelings that you're having or the situation that you're in and just being there with it.

Kyra: I feel like that's, that's the juicy part for me. If I try to jump ahead to a secondary, it is for me, a secondary emotion, gratitude. Um, it takes me out of where I need to be. Hmm, that's a

Jessi: beautiful point. Yeah.

Kyra: Yeah. I think it can be challenging for some people. So I, I think I, I said in a post before, like acceptance or present moment awareness is the new gratitude.

Kyra: You know, you don't need to feel grateful for it. You can just sort of like be in it. And that's, that's. And one last thing that I I, I'd like to circle back to just quickly before we say goodbye as well, is the, you were saying people coming back to their body. And I think anyone who's thinking about a move right now, what I, one piece of advice that I would give is that I feel like the place that we moved to that didn't work out, that was a logical decision that we made.

Kyra: It didn't sound logical at the time, but it was my brain going like, I found a school. I know this place because I had a cottage here growing up. It's only this many minutes away from the city, et cetera, et cetera. This makes sense. And so we moved there and by contrast, I didn't even think that it was a possibility in my life for me to live near the ocean.

Kyra: Like it never occurred to me. I would visit the ocean and be like, I love it so much, but there was no part of me that was like, oh, you could just move there. You know? Like you could just live there. So it felt indulgent and felt like wild to be like, I don't know anyone on this island. I don't, I I have no idea where we would live.

Kyra: I don't know anything about this place. Like I, I literally had never even been to the city that we moved to before we moved here. But it is such a perfect match because I was listening to my body be like, Hmm, that, that's, so if you're trying to, if you have this urge, this restless feeling, like, I wanna go, I wanna have an adventure, I wanna experience something, listen to what your body's telling you to do about it.

Kyra: Don't listen to the mind trying to put it into a neat little box and figure out what it thinks it needs to be.

Jessi: Boom. That is the conclusion to everything. Yeah. That's it. That's absolutely it. You can have the adventure, you can have the dream, the I idol, idealistic, like, don't give up on that. That's actually a big part of being sensitive in this world is that we bring the dreams, you know, we bring the vision and uh, the beauty to this world.

Jessi: And so we can't, the solution isn't to leave that. The solution is to trust the body over the mind. Yeah. Oh, so good. Or I could talk to you like all day. I

Kyra: know, I know. It's a problem. We need four more episodes.

Jessi: Oh no. Thank you for sharing your story, and I am really looking forward to your memoir. I can't wait for that to come out whenever, whenever it does.

Jessi: Um, and for those listening we've mentioned the article that she wrote, it's really beautiful. She has some really great, helpful takeaways too. So again, we'll link that in the show notes below. Um, and I highly recommend following Kyra on her Instagram. She is just, as you can tell, her word choice is just incredible.

Jessi: You're such an amazing writer. I just, every time you write something, I'm like, oh, it's so good. Uh, so you have to follow her. It's, it's gonna give you life. Uh, so thank you so much for your time today, Kyra. I am sending you love and energy and inspiration and excitement about your next season and about your current season, too.

Kyra: Same to you. Thank you so much for having me back. This was just a delight to talk to you again.

Jessi: My pleasure.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

Connect with Kyra Evans

• On Instagram

• On TikTok

• www.kyraevans.com

• Books and Downloads

Links Mentioned

• Kyra’s Article in Introvert, Dear

---

Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi

Episode 31: Uncover & Delight in Your Authentic Self With Gene Keys Coach Analena Fuchs

Conversation

Episode 31 Season 3

[00:00:00] The Authentic Calm Podcast, your space to understand your natural sensitivity, why you have it, what to do with it, and how to move through life differently to honor it. Together, we will look at holistic and natural supports. Dive deep into our subconscious, our conditioning, our programming, and learn how to release it, how to step into a new perspective and reframe our life to match who we actually are. Let's dive in.

 The Authentic, calm podcast, your space to understand your natural sensitivity, why you have it, what to do with it, and how to move through life differently to. Honor it. Together, we will look at holistic and natural supports, dive deep into our subconscious, our conditioning, our programming, and learn how to release it, how to step into a new perspective and reframe our life to match who we actually are.

Let's dive in.

Jessi: Welcome in my friends, I have Analena here and we are already just like laughing and having a ball. We were just joking that all of our calls have been like play dates, . They're just so delightful. And I've seriously been looking forward to this for like weeks, like since our last, uh, I guess our last zoom, our last call, and I'm just so excited to dive into Jean Keys with you because I just sense, uh, you have the same passion for just learning and you're also just so good at explaining things. And Jean Keys can be very complex, kinda like human design. It's complex, but simple at the same time, you know? Um, but in the simplicity, it's very deep, I find.

Jessi: And so I, oh, can't wait to have you on and explain. So welcome

Analena: back in an Analena. I'm so happy to be here for the play date, .

Jessi: And you said you pulled a card for this. Uh,

Analena: tell our audience about that. A yeah. So I have this card tag, which by the way, highly recommend this. It's called The Wisdom Keepers by Rosie Aronson.

Analena: Mm-hmm. Um, so it's the 46 Genies, basically on the card deck, uh, plus one mirror card, which is the, you and I was, I felt called to just pull a card and actually what happened and when card fell out. So it's like, okay. Was just like, I don't even have to pull it. It was so clear. , and it's the 46, which is your conscious earth.

Analena: Mm-hmm. . I saw that in your profile. And the shadow is seriousness and the gift is delight. So, and then the city's ecstasy. And I, I love this because I think I just shadow it with you because before we started, like human design, especially the jinky, oftentimes I, I think I talked about way too serious and cuz there's a lot of shadow work in there.

Analena: And one of the things that I find for myself actually is like, I love to talk about things in a more like lighter way and in a fun way. And I used to be a very serious kid, was like the strong face. I'm like, oh, cuz I'm, I'm an aqua, right? I'm a lot in my head and thinking and all that stuff. So, That's why I love we pulled this card.

Analena: Perfect.

Jessi: And for those that are listening, they're like, what are they talking about? Don't you worry. We're gonna dive in and explain everything that Alina just said and get ready. You're gonna have a system. If this is new to you, Jean Keys is new to you. Get ready to have your mind blown and get really obsessed with the new system.

Jessi: So an Alina. Oh, and I'll also say like anyone that's, you know, new to this, definitely go back and listen to, we have two other episodes that'll be coming out before this, uh, but I share a lot about an Alina and where she comes from. So definitely go back and listen to her beautiful story and all her wisdom she has to offer in many other areas.

Jessi: But today we're just gonna dive into the goodness and because we keep wanting to talk about different things and we just have so much you wanna share about each topic. So I'm like, we gotta leave as

Analena: much time as possible, . Oh,

Jessi: cuz you and I are just deep souls. So I would love Alina, if you could just dive into the basics.

Jessi: Like what in the world is Jean Keys? How did it come onto this planet? What's the intention? And then how do we start to understand like our unique uh, I guess, chart or system through, through gene keys. .

Analena: Yeah. Beautiful. So I'm gonna explain this a little bit with the context of human design, right? Mm-hmm.

Analena: because it's perfect, kinda, it's very connected and related. Yeah. So we have human design, and if you're listening, you should probably know about this already. So, human design is this incredible system that combines astrology. There's Chinese ik, , Western and eastern astrology. Uh, the cabal system, the Hindu chakra system.

Analena: Like, it's incredible and it really gives you this blueprint of who you are and how you make decisions. And it was mind blowing for me, right? Like totally changed my life. I was like, oh my gosh, wherever it has has been my, all my life. And it was just so incredible. And I know we talked especially about the deconditioning in the first episode we recorded, right?

Analena: Mm-hmm. . So this system was brought into the world, let's say a channel from his name is Ra. and or Robert Krak is his real name. So he was an Ibiza in 1987 and he channeled the system. It came through him and he said, which I really find so beautiful. It's for the entire world. Nobody owns it. That's one of things I like the most actually about this because I'm not a big fan of trademarking, or especially with wars.

Analena: Like if, how can we own words or thanks of that helping humanity, like you know, we all are connected and we all belong and it's, it's such a gift. So that is the first thing. And then there were many people that were his students, right? So one of his students was Karen Corey Parker, who was first my teacher when I learned human design.

Analena: Then there's also Richard Rod. He also knew Rob. and Richard Rud is the, what we call the founder of the Jin Keys. And Richard Rud actually was first the human design person in the uk. And I don't know the details there. There's some stories about it. I'm not here to judge Shering anything about it. I think everybody is living out their purpose in their own unique way, right?

Analena: And if they got along or not, that's, I think also part of the evolution, right? Mm-hmm. and why we're here, where we're at today. Um, but long story short, eventually Richard Rud had his own like enlightenment moments, right? Where he received those transmissions. Now about the Jin Keys, and if you can kind of think, so in human design we have 64 gates.

Analena: And these 64 gates are archetypal energies of really how the universe works. For me. It explains everything in these 64 gates there are correlated to the Chinese . So all this goes back to the Chinese , which is such a. , ancient wisdom that has been around 5,000 and thousand of years, right? Mm-hmm. . And so the 64 jean keys are an extension of the 64 gates in a way.

Analena: Like the gates always have like a higher and a low expression, or I like to say a shadow side and a, and a higher expression, because we live in a world of polarity, right? And we always, like the shadow helps us to kind of like, okay, but we need to embrace the shadow so we can actually access the gift and not keep judging ourselves, right?

Analena: Mm-hmm. And the Jin Keys now take these 64 gate energies, which again, they go back to the Chinese side and they go into the depth. They go like, like the book that he wrote. I mean, every Genki is a book in itself in some way. Like, and it's makes you speechless. I have to say, in all honesty, when I first, cause I, I first human design came to me and then very quickly, Uh, I heard about the Jin case and I actually got the book and I was like, first time I read, return the book because it's such a big thing.

Analena: And I started to read and I was like, this is kind of too philosophical. And I, I, I don't know what to do with this . I was, I wasn't ready for it. Yeah, yeah. And then it took for me, I was at a human design conference, um, that was, that was virtual. And Richard Rod was one of the guest speakers. And when I heard him talk and I listened to the whole story, and he also, he talked actually about ra and I saw Ross chart, the human design chart, and then Richard Rod's human design chart, and like, wow, , like, he got me, like, I got mesmerized and I was just like, I have to, like, I felt the pole so strongly in my sa in my sac.

Analena: And that was the history of that, right? So then I was like, okay, I got kind of activated with a Jean Case. And, and again, it came to me. I wasn't planning for it. And, and this is also, I wanna say this to people listening right now. , you will know when the time comes, when you're ready for the jinky. Is this not something you have to do?

Analena: Maybe there's something you're never gonna be interested in. There's lots of people, like in my case, there was human design first and then came the jinky. There are other people I know that are only diving into human design. There are people that only dive into the, there are also people that are in the J case, and then they dive into human design.

Analena: And in a way, human design is a little bit more masculine approach because it gives us a strategy to make decisions, right? Like you're a manifested and forming and as a manager and the way to respond and. Very often what I have found in the human design community is when people do not do the deconditioning work.

Analena: And that's why we did the episode about this. Mm-hmm. . So human design with the deconditioning work for me is very grounded, but human design on its own. Without doing the deconditioning work, I feel like people get a lot in their heads. Mm-hmm. Overthink stuff. And what do I do now with this gay? Like, like, I need to figure it out.

Analena: And the biggest message of human design is that the mind is not here to make decisions, . So that's why I love the jinky, because the jinky are all about embodiment. Mm-hmm. You know, and yes, human design is as well with the deconditioning. And so in the, in the gene case, the approach is all. , and I love this because you know, my podcast is called Out of Slowing Down.

Analena: It's all about slowing down. It's about patience. And so in the JY we have something that we call a golden path. So the way that Richard Rud received these insights about the genies and the deeper knowledge, the depth of these 64 archival energies, it's like there is a sequence how we can go. Because in human design we have all these gates right on the left and the right, the conscious and unconscious.

Analena: And it can be a little bit overwhelming. Like, where do I start and what's this number, what's this line? And this isn't this planet. And like, you know, and then I have to follow strategy and authority and . That's again, it gets us in the head. And now in the Jean Keys, in a way, it's simplicity. Mm-hmm. , right?

Analena: Because it shows you, okay, go here first, then there. And at a very, very, Slow pace. Mm-hmm. . So the golden path consists of three sequences, the golden path, the first sequence is called the activation sequence. Mm-hmm. , which moves through four, we call them spheres. And the gene key, so, which is basically four gates in human design, which is your incarnation crossing human design.

Analena: Mm-hmm. So it moves through your conscious sun, but the conscious sun and the jinky is called your life sphere. Mm-hmm. And then the conscious earth is called the evolution. Then your unconscious sun is called your radiance sphere. And then the one at the bottom is your purpose. Jean Key, which is your unconscious.

Analena: I believe

Jessi: And you don't have to like figure all this out, like there's a chart. You can go onto the Jean Key's website. Yes. And how this come up for you. So for those of you listening like, oh crap, do I have to figure this out? Like, there is a system that won't do this for you, so you'll visually see it and uh, and kind of get to understand your, your golden path.

Jessi: And could you kind of tell us, um, what the golden path is like in general? Like how does Richard Wright describe that? How did he come to. , is it just like meant to bring you to enlightenment? Like what is the goal of the Golden Path? Yeah,

Analena: I mean, it's all about that. I always say also a human design is about trusting yourself and being your authentic self and really fully living your purpose, right?

Analena: Mm-hmm. . And so you can go, like you say, you can go to my to jin.com to the website. There's a free profile, you have to put in your date of birth, the time and the place you were born, and that's how you get your free profile. I also, personally, I use Genetic Matrix because I use that for my human design charts.

Analena: I have a professional account there and there you can also, um, show, show the charts and, uh, for those of the ones that are watching this on the video, eventually . So, um, right now I'm sharing your chart, right? So mm-hmm. , the, the golden Path, like I said, it consists of three sequences and it's all about, so the first part of the sequence, which is the activation sequence, is about getting to know your genius.

Analena: like it's all about the purpose. When we talk about what's make purpose, what am I here for? Mm-hmm. . And it's not necessarily about what you are doing, it's about who are you being. Mm-hmm. Right. So embodiment and I get . Exactly. It's about embodiment. And I get, in my case, um, I'm here to make it in a, in a short summary.

Analena: It's like I'm here to guide humanity into the future. I kind of don't belong here, . And then when I first read it, but I was, I was like, yeah, that's who I am. It, it felt so true. And cuz I have the, the right angle cross of the swings, which is the consciousness is my 13 and everything was just like, it made so much sense.

Analena: It was just like, this is who I am. And the way that you go through this sequence, so we're still at the first one, right? Mm-hmm. , which is called the activation sequence, is that you take a full month to just contemplate one of those drinkies. . I love that. And who, and in this day and age has patience for that , right?

Analena: A

Jessi: months, months, a long time. a month, a long time.

Analena: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And it's not here to, I'm not here to tell you, okay, you are conscious or your lives work. 25 means x, y, z. That's what you have to do. That's not what it is. Mm-hmm. It is as you read. So you can read the book, the chapter, and the book from the, from the Jinky.

Analena: You can also listen to the audio book on book. You can also purchase. So Richard Rat did some separate, like audios about the kind of, kind of more Freeflow talking about the Jinky. You can buy them on the Jinky website. They're just a couple of dollar. You can also buy all 64 a package. I highly recommend that, by the way.

Analena: Um, that's good to, and I think that's also another book out there where there's also written down, I think that's the white one and that's the other one is the dark blue one on Amazon. So, um, the. Way it works is that just by reading one of the gene keys, it activates something in your dna. Mm-hmm. And you may actually notice, like as you start to read the gene keys, just reading it, like you get really tired because it starts to, something starts to happen on a cellular level.

Analena: And I have noticed that lots of people have talked to Emma, Luis, for example, about that conversation, and she has experienced that. And it's about what that means for you. Mm-hmm. And one of the biggest things in the Gene Keys is the art of contemplation. And that in a way is a type of shadow work.

Analena: And it's all about slowing down. It's about patience. And it's like, as you, let's say you read your Gene Key you listen to it, and there's always, there's a shadow, which is our, yeah. Kind of not self lower expression. And then there's the gift and then there's the siddhi and. in the self-development world we have been in, we are so conditioned with this positive thinking and focused on the good, which would be kind of like forcing yourself to be in the gift.

Analena: But the essence, which really goes along with what we talked in the deconditioning, episode, right, is that when you are in your shadow, right, which for you as the 25 is constriction, or the 46 is a seriousness, right? We take everything so serious in life. , let's say you have a day and you're being so serious and everything is a big deal, and then you just kind of like, okay, yeah, go on.

Analena: don't make it a big deal. Be gentle with yourself, but, and be loving with that part of you that is so serious because only as we fully embrace the shadow without judgment and it, it does take some time, that's only how we can release the gift. , which in that sense is the delight. So if you keep pushing away the seriousness, that is a part of who you are, we gotta love that part of you.

Analena: That's your quickest access point to the gift, to the delight. And then the accessy, like which, so the city, the city is kind of the enlightened states, universal consciousness. We get sparks here and there. It's not something we are gonna hang out all the time. Um, so it's more for us to be more in the gift, more consistently.

Analena: Hmm. However, that only happens when we can fully embrace love and accept the shadow part of us. Right. So it's a deep, deep contemplation, especially of the shadow. And every shadow also, which is so interesting, has like, , um, repressive nature and a reactive nature. So the represses, represses, repressive, difficult word is more like when we are very submissive and we kind of give up on ourselves or we let other people walk over us.

Analena: Yeah. And the reactive side of the shadows often, which is almost always comes from a place of insecurity, but people lash out in anger and more aggressively, right? Mm-hmm. . So you can have both in it, but most of the time, like I, I have noticed for myself as I've been contemplating my jinky, it's more the more the repressive in my case, you know, I've been always like a people pleaser and like, don't upset anybody, , which also makes sense of my human design, open solar plexus and Yeah.

Analena: Um, being a highly sensitive person and all of that, right? So,

Jessi: yeah. But it's, I feel like too, when you. . There's probably a progression as well that when you repress probably a ton, eventually you're gonna get to the reactive. Yeah. Or you might have those moments of reaction that are like volcano explosions,

Jessi: You're like, whoa, where did that come from? But it's been building and building. It's the other side of the coin. Yeah. Yeah. Can you break down a little more? Um, cuz I know, like I'm used to this language now and of course like you're an expert in this. I'm thinking of those where this is like, we just threw like a whole new language at them.

Jessi: Uh, so the, the shadow for someone that's like, I just like to go back to basics, like when we're talking shadow, like this isn't necessarily. I'm trying to think of negative connotations, like evil or like sinful, or like, this is actually just a part of you being human, right? Like being serious is not like, we'll talk about my 46.

Jessi: Like, being serious is not always bad. There's moments where you need to be serious. So that is a part of me, but it's when I'm con, continually living in my seriousness, right? Like I'm supposed to be enjoying the delight more and then the seriousness comes in as needed. Is that how you would kind of describe it, or how would you differentiate between like when the shadow is healthy or there's healthy awareness of the shadow?

Jessi: What does that look

Analena: like? Yeah. Yeah. The shadow is never bad. It's like always what I like to say. You know, we have day and night, we have hot and cold. Mm-hmm. , we have, we have emotions, but what do we do with humans? We say they're positive and negative. We've put the label on it. Yeah. It's, it's kind of the same thing, but of course we have this natural connotation to like, okay, let shatter, we wanna avoid it.

Analena: Just like, mm-hmm. . Think about. Sadness, grief, anger. These are all things we have labeled as bad. Mm-hmm. . Right? And so what are we when resistance, when we resist persists? Mm. What we can accept has the capacity to change. So shadows are a natural part of being a human. We live in a world of polarity, duality, right?

Analena: They, the, the gift only exists because the shadow is there. It cannot exist on its own. Right. It's like you have, you have a coin. You cannot have one side of a coin. You always have two sides of the coin. Mm-hmm. , right? So now my whole body has tingles, . That was really good. You're like, wow, I'm good. . That's amazing.

Analena: Channel. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, sometimes these like insights in the moments. Um, just my switch, my 61, that's a jinky that I'm contemplating right now. Um, but anyways, it's literally like, . That's exactly the most important point of all, actually, with the entire Jenkins, is with human design and everything, and the whole self-development work for myself, I find, is that we need to stop making that a bad thing because then we earn resistance, and the more we resist something, the more we, we experience that.

Analena: And especially, for example, anger. Mm-hmm. You know, I know like those things like be a good girl, be a good boy. Like, don't be mad. I mean, that is not socially cool or accepted. Right. It's like shush. Mm-hmm. Be quiet , or stop crying. There's something wrong with you or we need to fix it. Mm-hmm. . Right? That all perpetuates the cycle and makes it worse.

Analena: It's, it's just like, uh, I sit up with my daughter when I tell her, and I, I maybe, and I have talked about this already, but yeah. I. Right. Like when she has something where she gets really triggered and she's mad and she's sad, whatever's coming out of her, and I just let her be with that. And I, I let her, let her know it's okay, feel it, feel it, and two minutes later, totally cool, fine.

Analena: Like nothing happened. If I'm like, no, you stop it. Don't cry. Don't be mad. It's gonna be a holy thing and it's gonna blow out of proportion, you know, so we, we got that wrong down the line somewhere. And we cannot blame our parents for it. We cannot blame anybody for it. We now have the gift in this day and age that we have these systems and Richard Rad bringing us the out of contemplation and talking about, like he always says, , the, you can, the gift is in the shadow.

Analena: It's like the way I have graphic, um, made this before in a presentation, it's like, you know, there's like a, um, a present to open up. It's your birthday, there's a present now, and inside of it, the present is, is a diamond. Now the presence is the shadow. It's your gift. I mean, the, but you have to open it, you have to dive into it.

Analena: Mm-hmm. It may be scary because the unknown, I don't know what's inside. Mm-hmm. Right. So we have to dive into that. We have to open it up, we have to meet it, we have to face it. Right on. Oftentimes what we are scared of, because it's very uncomfortable to confront our shadows. Mm-hmm. , you know, the part of us that's super critical, that's always going into the negative and that feels like a victim.

Analena: That feels super inadequate and. , all of it. But that is part of being a human. So yeah, that's why the shadow is actually the most beautiful thing when we can see it this way. And the more you can get to this place, which I have to be honest, I may take a little bit of time because we have been, for decades, been trained to run away from it and make it a bad thing.

Analena: Especially I think with men as as well, right? For men to be vulnerable and to cry. I mean, Aspen labeled as super weak. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. and not sexy and something. And honestly, I have to say, and this has also taken me some time for me, it's the most sexy thing in a human, if it, especially men. Mm-hmm. And they can be freaking vulnerable with how they feel.

Analena: Even if they wanna cry. I don't, they have no reason to judge, you know? Yeah. And because we are humans and we are here to feel an emotion, need, need to be felt. Mm-hmm. So true. .

Jessi: And how do you, like, how would I lean into the seriousness? Like, cuz I, I know when I first started learning about human design and of course immediately heard about jinky and then dove into that, and I'm so, like, naturally in my mind it's hard for me to enter my body.

Jessi: So I'm of course like analyzing everything and like, okay, I gotta stay away from being serious and like, I can't be serious as I'm being serious about not being serious, you know, , it's like, yeah. Um, like actually, like it's funny cuz like my, you know, , my shadow of my life's work is constriction, right? So that's what happens.

Jessi: I get constricted, I get serious, I get so focused, I get intense. Mm-hmm. And that's the little opposite of like, where I can give my gifts or my gifts naturally come out of me. Mm-hmm. And uh, so how would you guide someone that's like, Living in that kind of black and white world of like, okay, like I've gotta avoid the shadow.

Jessi: I've got to lean into the gift and gets a little intense about it. someone like me that has that Capricorn rising that's like, okay, ,

Analena: I will figure this out. Yeah. So from my own journey, what I have found has helped me the most, especially in the beginning, because most of us, believe it or not, especially the people please us, we have a lot of suppressed anger.

Analena: Mm-hmm. , a lot of suppressed anger and what are you talking about, ? Yeah. Yeah, I know . So I love, so for that, so let's say you have, and this is, I love what you explained about the seriousness and the construction because these are programming partners. So they're, there is kind of, uh, yeah, it's a dance between the two and it's sometimes it's a challenge actually to kind of.

Analena: have these both come kind of into harmony eventually that can totally happen. Mm-hmm. and, and then you have acceptance and the delight, right? And the gift frequency. So the way that I, even before I knew about the gene keys, and I think this has helped, helped me a lot to dive a little bit quicker or also into the out of contemplation because of all the deconditioning work I have done.

Analena: Cuz for me, the whole out of contemplation was like, yeah, that's my language. That's how our target makes total sense. For me, it wasn't like, oh, this is totally new. So it's what I wanna bring in kind of some of the tools that I have been using before. Please do so. I love, I love tapping, right? Ef f t tapping.

Analena: And the way though that I do this is I don't do the, like, oh. Even though I'm so serious, unconditional love and accept myself because I'm kind of soothing myself. Mm. It's kind of, I, I like to say it's kind of like a pacifier for me. You know? It, it's kind of still bottling it in for me. .

Jessi: Yeah, I could, I can relate to that.

Analena: And it's not say, I mean, you can get at a point where this, I love unconditional love and accept myself as good, but for me, what has worked beautifully is when I'm super serious and I judge myself, and I have these super weird thoughts, which we all humans have. Let's be real. Right? So I just have, and I say what I'm really thinking, which is kind of nasty stuff sometimes, and I just start it all out like unfiltered.

Analena: Now you have kids. Don't do it in front of them. I what I, what is a really cool thing. You can go into your car in the parking lot, don't do it while driving. Put on some music or something and scream your scream, your whatever wants to come out out of it. And I was so surprised what came out of me, like really nasty stuff.

Analena: Mm-hmm. , I was like, woo, I'm, I'm such a nice lady. Like, I don't know. I can say so many mean things and yeah, the thing is, I'm, I'm, I was thinking that anyways, and with the tapping. Because you like tap on the meridian points and stuff like you actually, you release that. Mm-hmm. . And it's also, if you have the intention behind, like, because this is actually what's coming through right now.

Analena: Have always said this, the only thing that will ever set us free is the truth. Mm-hmm. And everything. Like people can fake it and everything. The truth will always come out. Always. Yeah. So my truth is that's how I feel. That's what I wanna say. Mm-hmm. , even though that's, I learned, I shouldn't say that, but that's my truth.

Analena: Mm-hmm. and it's there. I don't even know why it's there. Maybe it's from past lives or something that happened and I don't even remember. It is just, these are the words that I use, that's the language I speak and I, I need to let it out and just to let it go. So, That has helped me incredibly. I use it less now because I, there was kind of a phase, but the anger where it can get kind of intense.

Analena: Yeah. And, and I feel like once the anger has been kind of released, we can access more also of the sadness and um, some of the other little frequency emotions that we have in the body. And, and when kind of that pressure has been released a little bit, which again, I have been using the tapping for that now, I'm actually feel like, so the out of contemplation, there's so many different ways how you can do it.

Analena: Like this is not something you have to take a break for, for exam. It's like, let's say you wake up in the morning and you, you wash the dishes or whatever. As you do this, you can, like, maybe you wake up and you have all these negative thoughts and you're, I need to do all these things today and life is so serious and da da da da da.

Analena: And then you kind of like, kind of take a pause. . I'm like, okay. Very interesting. So you, you just, you become the observer and like, and I think the whole concept, like you are not your thoughts. Mm-hmm. , you know, you just actually have the, you have here this, this mission on earth to release this. For some reason, you have been chosen that you're capable of releasing this and letting it flow through your existence.

Analena: Um, there's no judgment. There's no right or wrong. You can even do it while, so the out of contemplation is also, let's say you're in a grocery store and you are just watching people or you, you're just kind of being with whatever's going on in life, you can do it while running. And the less we have distraction, the more powerful it is.

Analena: And there's one beautiful example that Richard Rod has in the book. So there's one little book, you guys can buy it on Amazon. It's called The Art of Contemplation. one of the best books you can ever buy, honestly. So he talks about a taxi driver. And the taxi driver. There's a, I don't know if it was in New York or in some city, I guess, but there's a lot of red lights, right.

Analena: And you probably have seen it sometimes people on the road are kind of nuts and lots of aggression are going on. Right. And yeah, so this cabri a taxi driver always got so upset. Oh, another red line and like, you know, freaking stressed from this. And really out of contemplation, he learned that this is actually live, giving me the opportunity to pass.

Analena: Mm-hmm. So he reframed the whole thing into like, now he can enjoy. And it, it kind of gives you this break and you can take action moment to deeply breathe into your body. . Hmm. You know, we have breath work these days everywhere. I know. We talked about that already as well. And what I also love with the out of contemplation is there is no specific way to breathe it.

Analena: It just talks about No, you find your own way of breathing. It's unique to you. Yeah. And like, think about how many breath do we take? How many are we actually aware of it? Mm-hmm. And that's something I also totally still walk on. , you know, I can be all over the place. I mean, I'm a manager and I'm an Aquarius.

Analena: I'm always up in the, I have most AR signs and I mean, I'm like , you know, so and how relaxed do you feel just when you take like really belly breath, it's like, wow, it's incredible. And I mean, your purpose, GenY is a 52 and stress. Stress is the shadow and. , it's all about slowing down and, and mm-hmm. , so that's, yeah.

Jessi: The, the restraint part when I first read, so yeah. So my purpose is 52, so the shadow is stress. The gift is restraint, and the city is stillness, which when I saw that, I was like, oh my gosh. Like my whole, my whole calling that I've felt towards of like, it started with this saying of a soul at rest. Like that's what was given to me divinely.

Jessi: Mm-hmm. . And then it turned into this statement of authentic calm, which is now what I use a lot in my work. Yeah. Uh, and then I came across this and was like, oh my gosh. Like, yes, of course. Like , you know, just like I'm here. Slow down. And I think that's why we connect so much. We're kind of on a similar journey, you know, of like, okay, we're here to release the intensity.

Jessi: We're here to release the stress. We're here to notice and witness and calm and breathe and be okay with not moving forward all the time. Because I think both you and I, we have that Manny side of us, it's like, go, go, go charge, conquer, , initiate. Mm-hmm. . And that's, you know, that's a gifting we have, but it's not 24 7, so it's, yeah.

Jessi: Yeah. And then I have the line too on it too. So it's like super. I was

Analena: the, the, the is the natural talent. It's, it's about the breath, it's about the movement and the body and it comes easy and, and yeah. Your purpose is to help people to slow down. Yeah. You know, that's really what that is all about. And.

Jessi: which is my nature. But I changed myself so much to fit in, to fit into my fast-paced family. And I, I think that's why I got so constricted and serious to call the shadows of my other. Uh, I really like leaned. That's what came forward for me, cuz that's obviously my, my path. But now I get the opportunity, like, thank you to my family for bringing forward those, you know, those, those sides of my coin and now I get the rest of my life to enjoy the other side.

Jessi: Yeah. Which is I think really, really beautiful. I'd, I'd rather, I always say, I'd rather start with the challenge and get to live the rest of my life, like in the beauty then start with the beauty and live the rest of my life in challenge. And I've, I've had that throughout everyth. . Like my, my biggest challenges were in my childhood, my young life, even in my marriage.

Jessi: It was like the first three years were really challenging and now they're just, I mean, they're not perfect, but they're glorious in comparison and it's just getting better and better. And I think that's like a really cool, so for anyone out there that's felt like they've, been, and I think that's true for a lot of sensitives, we tend to kind of hit the ground running right away.

Jessi: You know, we have a lot of hardships right off the bat. And then, uh, we get to really understand who we are and if we lean into it and don't resist it as you've been telling us an Alina, I think there's so much beauty, so much peace that can come forward from this. So, and the jean keys are just such a potent way.

Jessi: to kind of uncover that. That's why I love all these systems. It's that it's not that you can't really figure this out on your own, but it just makes it so much more obvious. It's like a shortcut. And I know you and I are obsessed with shortcuts and , like, you know, we want, we want the peace, we want the stillness.

Jessi: So anything that can kind of help us understand what's going on inside of us, it's like, it gives words, it gives language to what we're experiencing.

Analena: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really so beautiful and it's almost, you almost cannot put it in words. You gotta experience it and, yeah. No, I love every, and I can totally relate what you said, like I have also, as in my current, uh, relationship, it's the same thing.

Analena: It started very rocky. Mm-hmm. and very, very challenging. And it's getting more, more and more beautiful. It's exact same thing. Same with my corporate or my professional life. It started out, Oh my God. No. Not fun at all. They're like, , like, yeah. So totally off path. And now I'm just like, I feel so grateful for like, cuz you know, now I see a lot of people I went to college with.

Analena: Mm. And it's almost like we went opposite ways. Like I, what I thought I had to do back then, but I somehow the universe didn't let me be there. You know, like work for McKinsey or like the consulting business kind of lifestyle just didn't work out. I felt like a freaking loser. Of course, right? Yeah. But now I'm just so eternally grateful because somehow all the, uh, tasks and challenges that came my way, they, they prepared me now for this.

Analena: And sometimes I have to like, wake myself up. Like, you know, I have my own business, I have my own podcast. I'm, I'm a thought leader and I have these big vision and dreams and I know it's gonna happen. I don't know how, which is fine, but I'm having more and more fun every day, you know, just doing what I love and what comes easy to me and.

Analena: and it's, it's, it's so cool because it's so life changing for people. I, I honestly, cuz I'm a two four, right? I'm a two line, I, I forget all the time my, my magic, you know? I'm like, oh, because I know everybody knows, right? not at all. So,

Jessi: oh man. Yeah, I can relate to that. I actually just got like re awoken to that for my two I, the last year or so.

Jessi: I think I wrestled so much with just like, what it, what are really my natural gifts, you know, as a two, we're the natural genius, right? So we have these natural gifts and I just, I was getting too serious about it. typical. So I just was like, I gotta figure this out. Like, what are, I was asking a what am I, you know, what am I good at?

Jessi: What am I good at when it's like, oh my gosh, I shouldn't . And, you know, thankfully I feel like God was like, okay, just take a chill pill and I'll, I'll show you. And, um, in the last, whenever I verbally ask, for wisdom or answers or information. It always comes. It's such a, it's so beautiful. And the last like mm-hmm.

Jessi: two, it was really in December, I should say. I had a lot of awakenings of like my own clients telling me like, you know, feedback, um, both good and also a little hard to hear because I, I had forgotten what was my gift and, uh, and what their gifts were. I'll give a really raw example, um, in light of potentially embarrassing myself.

Jessi: But like, I shifted my business a ton, uh, because I really have this desire to empower my clients. And I was starting to feel like my industry as a whole, not starting to feel like, I always felt like my industry as a whole, like the health world is all about kind of keeping clients and I think like therapy's kind of similar.

Jessi: Like it's just everyone's so desperate to have their like, Their lineup of clients or patients that they don't really fully empower them. You know, they kind of keep 'em on the line. And I just really despise that. And so I think I went a little too hard, to the other side of like, I'm gonna, I wanna fully empower my clients and I really feel like they should be able to like, have the information and figure these things out.

Jessi: And there is a place for that. But I have this beautiful, just raw conversation with one of my clients I've been working with for years now, she's actually the one that introduced me to Jean Keys, which is so rad. Mm-hmm. . Uh, but her and I were just like having a, a honest conversation pers human to human.

Jessi: And she was just saying, you know, I think you are forgetting that a lot of, like what you do is comes natural and easy to you, but it doesn't come that easy to us. And it was such like a moment of like humility and also like gratitude because I've come to really own like, okay, I'm. This has always been hard for me to say, but I'm really good at helping people know like what's going on in their body and what they need.

Jessi: It's, it's like, it looks like elementary to me, like reading labs and all this stuff. Like yes, I had training on it, but I'm learning like, oh, I'm naturally really good at it too. And like it's so simple to me. And I assumed that all I have to do is kind of teach my clients to few little things and, and they'll get it and they'll be able to do it.

Jessi: And they're all looking at me like, you are bonkers lady . Like, what are you talking about? And it was so beautiful. Cause she's like, I come to you because. I'm not good at that and I wanna delegate it to you, and you're so good at it and I wanna lean on you for that. And, and we were just talking about how that's actually, there's nothing wrong with that.

Jessi: That's actually really beautiful. And that's me giving my gifting and her giving so that she can then give her gifts to the world. Right? Yeah. Which are not that. And it was just this moment of like, oh my gosh. Like, okay, that's my gift. That's one of my giftings. Mm-hmm. So I think it's, it's hard sometimes for us to see and to own like what is natural for us, but it's also, I, yeah.

Jessi: I think sometimes when things get really serious. , it's like I'm blocking myself. I think when I get constricted, it's like I can't see the obvious. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's like I'm blocking obvious,

Analena: oh, I mean, look, I'm a two line and everything.

Analena: Just what you said. What I wanna say to this, because it's, this is so beautiful because that's really what I see the big vision in the future that we are going into with human design and the jinky is this place where, and that's what the genius of the activation sequence is about, where you're just being your natural gifts and talents.

Analena: What comes easy to you, because that's exactly what your client said. It's hard for me, like she could figure it out, but it would waste her genius. Yes. Because she's getting exhaustible to try to figure out the lab and whatever, and she's getting frustrated or what? And it's like, and then all the other stuff that she's actually good at and can have other people with is gonna be shoveled under the carpet.

Analena: Mm-hmm. And the whole purpose of these systems is that, . All humans, every single one of us ultimately has the courage to lift their natural gifts and talents and feel worthy to get paid for it. Mm-hmm. , because we have this idea, we need to work our, sorry, just, I'm gonna say this now, our ass off. You can swear on this podcast.

Analena: Yeah. . Okay. It's very welcomed, you know, and have to have five jobs and it has to be hard. And that's what we have learned. That's, that's, but that is bs That is not the truth. And that's why I wanna go back what I said earlier, the truth will always come out. That's why all the things we are seeing right now, I believe so many companies are gonna crumble so many systems and structures that have been built, because they're not built on how the universe works when it comes to truth.

Analena: They are based, they, they're fierce structures, you know? Mm-hmm. . That's good. The 40, the 45. I can actually read that to you. Yeah. Um, so the 45th Jin. Ultimately, any system that has been built on a foundation of fear will, by its very nature crumble. and, and that's why also everything with the Gene Keys is, is just, it makes sense at such a deep level.

Analena: And I know we kind of live in troubled times and maybe many people are listening right now that may be a little bit scared of what's gonna happen. It's the most epic time we live in. That's how I really feel. And I don't know why I have that confidence. I guess there's a reason for that, but it's actually exciting.

Analena: It couldn't be more exciting, seriously, because we are here to now build new ways of being that are based on love and the way it's actually meant, or more harmonious ways where every single human, there's gonna be more harmony, more equilibrium. You know, and we are not all supposed to be doing everything.

Analena: We're not supposed to be doing all the same. Like, I would rather ask you about the labs and I can do my human design Jeanie's magic, which I think, just like you were saying, like, whoa, like it's easy. Like, I mean, everybody knows this because I know, and, and I, so, and I, I love that I'm not the only one that feels this way.

Analena: I need that confirmation. And hearing you helps me more be like, yeah, damn it, I'm living my purpose fully and I gotta embrace it and feel worthy to get compensated for it, because that's actually how I can give the most to people. That's the win, win, win we are all looking for. And now the other beautiful thing is that, so it's also one of the jinky, and I even said this before, there was the jinky, because I, I saw this in relationship.

Analena: Mm. When, so we have learned one-on-one as two right? In math . I think that's true. It's not because. when you have what? Like you and I write now, there's Jesse Lina. Mm-hmm. . And then there is the relationship, what we create together. It's more than, it's something exponential. Mm-hmm. . So, and it's also, I was reading the, I think we talked about the money episode about this actually already.

Analena: Mm-hmm. , like one person can make a million dollar, another person can make a million dollar, when they come together, they can make way more than 2 million. Mm-hmm. , because it's the bringing together the puzzle pieces and we can just create so much more together. And we still live in this, like everything is separated and people have to run their, like oftentimes single moms running the whole household instead of supporting each other.

Analena: We are gonna move into a more community-based way of living where we can help and support and how many groceries are being thrown out because everybody tries to do it all by themselves. Like, we will live in such a waste culture. You know, I guess I could go no rant on that .

Jessi: So, no, that's a really good point.

Jessi: And I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we don't know who we are. We don't know what we're about. Yeah. We don't know what our gifts are. Like even me, like I've spent years, you know, contemplating these things and I still can not only forget , but not see it. And Yeah. And I think it's because I'm, that is my masculine side, right?

Jessi: I have, I do, I am very masculine dominant whenever I look at my energetics like it. All my variables are to the left, basically, except for one in human design. And so it's, it's very easy for me to go there of like, okay, system structure answers, you know, I want things to make chronological, chronological sense.

Jessi: Um, but I'm being called and asked to lean into my more feminine and to rest into reception. And its acceptance really is my ultimate. Mm-hmm. Uh, and all of us have that journey. And I think there's something so beautiful that, like, why would we be given these systems in this time if it wasn't to speed up this process?

Jessi: Because I could have spent my entire, you could've, we could've spent our entire lives trying to kind of figure out who we are and navigate this. And, uh, instead we get to have these systems where we just put in our birth time, basically our location, and boom, it's there. And yes, there's, especially with Jean Keys, there's a lot to contemplate.

Jessi: Like, I know for me, when I first saw. Thinking of one that was really confusing to me, uh, my purpose, you know, the , my gift of restraint. I was like, restraint. What is, what does that mean? You know, because words mean so many different things, different people. Mm-hmm. . But it was really beautiful the more I like, leaned into it and read Richard's definition and also just thought about my own life.

Jessi: Like it started coming forward and like, oh, okay, yeah, restraint. Okay. And to me it's kind of similar, not exactly the same, but similar to like constriction. And so it was just like, okay, like I'm starting to see like, but it's on like the beautiful side of it, of like , like the healthy side of constriction.

Jessi: Um, and so it's just been fascinating because I also think with, with Jean keys, there's less rules. Um, and so it is very feminine. Like you can't just. know exactly what it means. Like there's a lot of room for interpretation. Maybe it's another way to describe it. . Yeah.

Analena: And, and that's really why, why the, the jinky and I'm a jinky guide, right?

Analena: Mm-hmm. . So I do Jin's readings, for example. But it's more to guide you into your own concept, maybe see some things, so how it's connected, explain this or kind of intuitively show you where you wanna go really deep and, and things like that. Um, but you can only do this yourself. Yeah. This is not, I cannot tell you, uh, what the 52 JK means for you, right?

Analena: Mm-hmm. . So that is through, and that's why the out of contemplation is something you, so let's go back to, I think, because we were talking about the activation sequence. So it's like this four spheres. You wanna take about four months just to do the activation sequence. You, every month you contemplate one of the spheres, which is one gene key, and the line.

Analena: that is so deep, and I'm sharing this right now because I'm right now going through the Venus sequence. Mm-hmm. , there's a retreat going on. So we have these community calls there where we just share our experience and I, um, I'm now on the third one and I have experienced the deepest transformation ever.

Analena: Hmm. Seriously. And it's like, I'm going so slow. , it's less information. Mm-hmm. , it's kind of what I always talk about. Right. Less is more slow down and I'm really embodying this now, like have never before. Mm. Because we all have the 10, oh, let me just go to the course and one day and read all information. I got it.

Analena: No you didn't. It's like we read books. Right. Another book, another book, another book. Like Yeah. Read one book 10 times, you're gonna get so much more out of that mm-hmm. and actually implement maybe one or two things Oh yeah. Than overloading yourself with both information. So it's just so epic. And. . And I just wanna finish up the, the three sequences so people kind of know.

Analena: So it is recommended to go in the sequence. You can start one of the other ones as well. But let me explain. So the first again, is that activation sequence, which is about you, a genius, about what am I here for? What's my purpose? Like, if you have that question that goes into that, which I totally recommend because everything is kind of built on that foundation for everything else, but you're gonna feel really grounded in your body and that, right?

Analena: Mm-hmm. . And then the second sequence is called the venous sequence that I was just talking about. And it's all about love. It's all about relationship. And that is probably the most challenging one to go through because it goes into the depth of relationships and emotions and it starts with a purpose, jinky.

Analena: Then it goes through the attraction sphere, which that thing is mind blowing because it really explains what you attract, especially in terms of relationship in your life. It's incredible. And then it goes through what we call the iq, EQ and sq, which is the seven year cycle. So the IQ is on your mind, um, how your mind really works.

Analena: And that in itself is so because yeah, we have this mindset work, but you can narrow it down to one JY and, and really know more about your shadow there and the gift that is incredible. Mm-hmm. And that is from age 14 to 21, the cycle where kind of also that has a lot to do with the contemplation. Then the EQ is all about the emotional world.

Analena: That is age, age to 14, that cycle, right? Mm-hmm. and, and then the SQ is all about the physical development, which is, so it's, it's the, it's the body, the physical, then the emotions in the mind, right? The, and the, the SQ is like year one to seven. So that, that cycle, ah, and then the um, , the last one is called the core wound in terms of the venous sequence.

Analena: That is your biggest, our biggest wound we carry. And that's, that's basically, um, when you want your mother's womb, you already kind of took that on and that's something you all wanna, at some point template. It's working, life changing and, and I mean, I have no words for it, but in my case it's the 40 and it was cuz the 40 is all about the willpower and the rest and the exhaustion and it, it can talk so much about it and it's so beautiful, which makes everything sense.

Analena: My podcast that I have about slowing down and that I have been experiencing this challenging for myself as well. So that, It will bring up, I gotta be honest, a lot of uncomfortable emotions, but there is so much potential to transform here. It's, and I, I do recommend you do it not alone in the way that you just do it by yourself, but with maybe a group of people in some way are guided form where you're not the only one.

Analena: Content planning. Because there's so much power when you get together with people and you share your own individual experience. Like, this is how it plays out for me. Mm-hmm. . Um, and then the last of the three sequences, and just to give you a heads up, I think Richard is about to release some more sequences eventually.

Analena: Oh, um, that's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. There's always more coming. . Um, and he has lots of other programs and stuff. Everything is so fascinating. But the, the final one, which especially entrepreneurs, they tend to wanna go there first is the, is the pearl sequence. So the pearl is all about money and prosperity and entrepreneurship or like work life and, um, your branding and also your, um, biggest abundance block can be found in that sequence.

Analena: And it's, yeah, it's another beautiful one, but it is for, to do the other ones first because we tend to kind of like, uh, let me do the money stuff first and then everything else. But let me tell you, I mean, you can dive into it, but eventually you will be guided by the universe to go through the activating sequence and the venous sequence.

Analena: Mm. Um, like it happened for me, the venous sequence, it came my way. I wasn't looking for it. It literally, my tool line pulled it in and it was meant to be there. And I'm now there. I'm fully embracing it and doing it, and best thing ever. So

Jessi: cool. I'm like, oh my gosh, I just got so excited about this. Again, , I've already been excited, but like even more so I'm just like, I need to go through these sequences.

Jessi: I've done more of like individual studies of, you know, the specific gene keys. Um, but this, going through the sequence sounds really potent and powerful because there's just so much intention, especially the Venus as you were describing that I was like, oh my gosh, that sounds really, really potent. Ugh.

Jessi: And okay. Talk to us a little bit about what it would look like, uh, to have a reading with you. Like how does, since you, as you said, like it's not necess, you're not necessarily to tell us how to interpret like each gene key. How do you guide someone when they come and have a.

Analena: Yeah, I, I do it very intuitively where I really ask people.

Analena: So that's one of the things how jinky is a little bit different and many people that come to me that wanna have kind of both, and I also talk about human design, but let's talk more jinky right now. It's gonna be less information, right? It's more about, I, I usually have a questionnaire where I ask you where you're at right now, what are some of your challenges, where you wanna be?

Analena: And then I kind of look at the JY and intuitively dive into some elements, but I, I'd rather go deep there. Mm-hmm. . And so they have some really actionable steps, what to work on. So if somebody is, has some health challenges, I look at a particular sphere. If they have totally no idea about their purpose, we're totally lost there.

Analena: It's more about the activation sequence, it's about relationship stuff. We look more at the Venus, um, and. . Yeah. So it's, it's more about one particular aspect going deep. Also, especially the lines like there is so much step in the lines, you know? Mm-hmm. , just the, the tool line. What we learn in human design, it's great, but it's a little bit superficial to be honest.

Analena: If you learn, when you learn the jinky, it's kind of like, yeah, whoa. Now I'm like, . It's like, like the, the tool line, just for example. And in human design you learn the tool line is the hermit. You like to hide away and then you get called out and you need to honor that alone time. And it's just very important for you.

Analena: But of course it's can also be too much and we hide out too much. Right. So it's more about the, and it's called the hermit, right? And in the JK it's called in the activation sequence. So in your life work, the tool line is the dancer. Mm-hmm. Like you just supposed to do what feels so effortless and light just like a dance.

Analena: Mm-hmm. And just that visual gave me that permission to like, oh, I'm just study what becomes easy to me and like, It really helped me so much with that, you know? Mm-hmm. , I still forget it sometimes, but , it was really a quantum leap for me to just own that part of me. And like also for my business, it's all about, it tells you so much about marketing.

Analena: The Tula is all about, uh, aesthetics and beautiful things. And for me it was like, oh, that's why I love to play in Canada all the time. Like all these, like, I literally, I cannot promote a program if it doesn't look pretty. I, I just, it had, there has to be beauty and that's all what the tool line is about.

Analena: So it, it just, yeah, it confirms so many things that we keep questioning and we get so caught up in what all these other people are telling you you should be doing. And another thing that I have to say also, first with human design, but now even more so with the genis that. . I work less and less with other people.

Analena: You know, like in terms of like, oh, this program teaches you how to do X, Y, z I, I can no longer, honestly, for the most part, not always, I don't wanna say always, but, um, anytime there is like, oh, we teach you how to do this. If they have no knowledge of human design or how we are different, it's, it's not, it's not worth it for me.

Analena: I, I cannot, I cannot connect. There is no, it's just a bunch of information that I can get a book about it and mm-hmm. . Um, now there are times where my cycle really responds very clearly and I work with somebody that has no fucking idea about ZA because they have exactly what helps me to get where I'm supposed to be.

Analena: Right. Um, but I used to be more on the seek of like, I need to find the answers and they have it, and they have the solution for me to, to kind of work with other coaches more from a scarcity place. And that has just fallen in part. I still invest. , but it's at a much more grounded, um, space now. It's definitely less than what it was, but it's much more Putin, much more powerful, and I just trust myself so much more because I know so many of the things that I was looking answers for before I have them myself.

Jessi: That's amazing. That's a beautiful place to be, and that's where we should all be. If we're looking for answers or we're looking for support, we're looking to enhance our skills or our relational abilities or our processing abilities that we come from a place of comfort in knowing that we technically have it all.

Jessi: So we're just looking for someone that can maybe help us unveil it a little bit. , you know, instead of like, oh, I'm lacking and you need to give me the thing, it's, I have it. Can you just help me unveil it? Mm-hmm. and I, I fully agree with you. I just spent like a whole year all last year was all about like going all in on my business.

Jessi: Like not holding back, not being afraid, but I totally did it in a masculine way of like, , I'm charging all the things that everyone says I need to do because I've always fought systems and I always, you know, wanted to be original. And so I had everyone being like, that's why you're not seeing the success you could have.

Jessi: But then I've come to realize that I kind of, I needed to walk through that. I have a lot of three still in my profile. I had to learn it the hard way, but of just like, no, if you know me looking to other people constantly to like fill this supposed need, it is just gonna throw me off because they don't know who I am.

Jessi: Only I know who I am. And if they're just giving me what they've done in whatever area it is, some of it may work, some of it may not. But I can't just like plug and play. Like I think that's such a desire we have in this culture is the plug and play system. And there is a place for that here and there.

Jessi: Like you said, if someone actually is in alignment with us where they're like the same design or they have a similar gene key purpose or things like that, like that works. But that's not always the case. And usually we're just drawn to them because they've had success and we want success too in whatever area it is.

Jessi: Uh, so I think it is so important to take the time to slow down and to dive in and trust that you already know all the answers. It's just. , allowing yourself to be quiet enough still enough or just to make space in whatever way is authentic to you. Hmm. Right. Uh, for it to come forward. And sometimes that's with the help of others, and sometimes it's not.

Jessi: Sometimes it's just, I mean, technically do, using human design and Jeany is, you know, receiving the help of Richard Red and Raw and all of that. Um, but I, I know especially for S two lines, it can be really helpful to actually do it in our own timing by ourselves. Um, I think that's why I personally love books and podcasts and things like that because I'm learning, but I'm not like in someone's presence and I'm not being directly coached or trained or whatever.

Jessi: Mm-hmm. . Um, I can do it kind of in my own way,

Analena: but. No, I love it. And I, I, now, I encourage everybody to go back to the money episode, right? Yes. That we recorded, we talk so much about it, and I really believe that, like I said, there's, there's a balance with everything, right? Mm-hmm. like a place of harmony. And there are times you totally wanna have somebody guide you and they have the expertise like you with what you do, right?

Analena: That's your expertise. People come to me because they don't wanna read all the human design books, and I give them the shortcut with a reading, or they take a course and all the stuff that I have been learning already, I can give them in a very beautiful way. And some people oftentimes too, like they have hurt human design, but they don't get it.

Analena: And then I explain it to them and they, it clicks. Mm-hmm. Because it's me, maybe even another person. Another person, right. So, and the same for me, it's just that these, all these things and that, that's why we talked about the 45 about it. Anything that has been based, built on fear and scarcity is kind of fall apart.

Analena: Mm-hmm. And that's why I actually wanna say this right now, because. , maybe some people are aware of it or not. There has been a lot of lashing out, especially in the coaching industry of pointing fingers, and this is no longer what you should do, and they're doing this out of integrity and da da da da, da.

Analena: The more you focus your attention on that, the more energy you give that, the more it grows. Right? Focus on yourself. Do what feels right to you. And I really believe with these systems, like especially human design and Jin case, that we are the consumer. The, when we no longer purchase those things, they're not gonna be offered anymore.

Analena: There's nothing to fight, right? It's like, I mean, that's basic economics. I mean, . Yeah. Supply and demand. If I'm no longer demanding scarcity based programs and sales tactics and nobody's gonna buy 'em anymore, they gotta change and it will change. And it's also not, these people are not doing something bad on purpose oftentimes.

Analena: I think for the most part, they may have learned that and they think that's super an integrity because it has worked for them. And I think it works for others, but they, they're not aware of how uniquely different we are, you know? So it's, it's just, um, yeah, we're just here to kind of lead that path for humanity and open up, and I have this all the time.

Analena: People tell me, like, you know, when I have a program and I, I tell 'em, this is what we have. Or if they wanna sign up and we talk about it, if I feel like it's best interest and, you know, if the sacl doesn't respond, if it's a generator type, perfect, it's not aligned for you right now. I never. Like, I don't take that personally, you know, because we have this conditioning.

Analena: Oh, you have to analyze, what did you rule wrong on the sales call? . Well, it just wasn't meant, just let it go. Come on. Yeah. Let it go. And the people that are supposed to work with him, whatever way of form that come to you, they all this stuff that most of us have learned, you have to make it happen. And you have to work hard.

Analena: And, and yes, not everything is gonna be easy. And it's not like there's no challenges come your way. But when you live in alignment, what I have found is like you go with the flow of life, your support. It's like you're swimming in the river and you have the support. Yeah. You know, it's, and, and you really, I think that's my final invitation.

Analena: I invite you to go slow to go fast. Mm. You're not, the way you, you actually get stuck is because you go too fast and, and because you, you're pushing against the natural flow of life. So, and, and anytime people struggle too much, it's because they're trying to make it happen. They're not allowing to surrender into the flow of life.

Analena: And, and that is my purpose. Jita too was the, the most feminine. And I'm here to bring the feminine into everything and it comes easy to me. I, I, I just know can sense and feed hard work. It works. And that's another thing with my tool line, I'm like, for most people that's, it's totally not relatable cuz we have been so conditioned now I have to work hard and I have to make it happen and I have to put in the hours and

Jessi: No, no.

Jessi: And that's like also so disruptive because people are freaking out of like, wait, if I don't, then what do I do with myself? And, oh, what if it doesn't come in? And the, there's so many things, but it's, it's so funny what you just said. Go slow to go fast is literally like on my phone.

Analena: Oh right. See? Yeah. You so like, I don't even know.

Analena: I love

Jessi: it. I know we're so in line. Well, we're on a similar journey, I think, which is why we connect so well. But I am just so grateful to you an Elena for your time, giving us three episodes, giving us profound wisdom. I've been like re-listening to our episodes together, cuz I just get something new each time.

Jessi: And for those that have been listening, , obviously Alina's an incredible teacher and I just wanted to bring that forward cause you haven't really talked about it much. But she has a program where she teaches and so if you're like, this is making sense when she talks about it, like you need to go to her school Also, obviously you can book a reading.

Jessi: Um, and she has her own podcast, so learn from her like she is here to easily and generously and simply give practical information about who you are and why you're here and how you're unique. Jean Keys is a great way to do it and I'm just, ah, I'm so excited that Richard's coming out with more, but it's also like, oh no, I kind wanna, like, I gotta dive into what we have, but it's, oh, it's so good.

Jessi: And we'll put some links below about the different books and all of that. Okay. Uh, is there anything else you would add as far as resources for those that are interested in Jean

Analena: Keys? . Yeah. I mean, I would always say go to the website first to pull your off profile. And even if you have no idea what this means, then mm-hmm.

Analena: um, yeah, I mean, you can sign up for the sequences, right? And they're very affordable. It doesn't cost in, in, probably for most people have invested thousands and thousands, like I think the sequence is 150 or something, each of them, right? Mm-hmm. and, um, trust your intuition where if you're called to dive into, but really know that less is more and you wanna get the book.

Analena: I love to listen also to audio because I'm not always a reader. I love to like, just when I go for a walk or something, or even the car, I just like to listen and, um, it's, it's very simple. Like let it be simple and then the out of contemplation, I definitely, you know, especially if you've been trying out all these different healing modalities and you feel still kind of stuck, that's kind of a fresh breath of air as well.

Analena: Yeah. And, um, and then of course I offer readings. I offer human design readings, jk, the school you talked about. We have the human design certification, which is beautiful. Amazing. I mean, I feel like really we are changing the way we do business in the world with that because the more leaders we have that have this knowledge, it's just incredible.

Analena: Right? So, yeah. Yeah. Trust yourself. Always feel free to reach out. You know, I'm very friendly person. I am always here also to guide you. I'm also very big on letting you know, if I feel like it's not a good fit or I have some other people I know that I, you might maybe I feel like would be good to know for you.

Analena: And, um, . Yeah. I'm just, yeah. Really honored to be on this journey. Thank you for having me on this podcast. Oh, it was so much fun. I kinda wanna have another episode. So let's see. ,

Jessi: I'm sure we'll think of something,

Analena: gonna start a talk show or something. I

Jessi: that be so fun. The weekly call with Anna and

Analena: Jesse . I mean, look, you're the manifest.

Analena: I let you initiate. I'm here to respond. Yeah, I know . Um, but I, I kind of, I mean, this is a thing for me. I'm also with my astrology, like I'm supposed to be in media. Mm-hmm. And I, I know I wanna write a book. I'm just gonna let it come to me. But I have talked probably for years now, I wanna be on tv. I wanna sit on the couch with Oprah and talk about it.

Analena: But I'm, I'm kind of at the same time, which I love. I'm totally detached. But I think the world, the mass con, like the masses Mm. They're starting to be ready for, because we always have to remind ourselves that even though we may have a lot of listeners, like several thousands or something like that, right.

Analena: Um, it's kind of such a small percentage of humanity and I, I feel like we are getting into a place where more and more people, um, yeah, that what we call like, not so spiritual or whatever, they're gonna be more and more open to these kind of things, you know? So we are really here to shine the light. So, just excited.

Jessi: It's an exciting time. Thank you. I just wanna end on that. Thank you for giving us hope, um, because I think, like what you said around the coaching industry applies to everything. Currently right now, there's so much fear, whether it's the recession or whatever, politics, the earth, whatever crisis is being brought forward.

Jessi: Not like put your head in the sand, but understand that you're here at this time for a specific reason. You've been given beautiful gifts that are, you know, laid out in jeany, astrology, human design, but just the, they're there and. , you're here to simply uncover them and do them. That's all you're here for.

Jessi: Like there's, and that in and of itself, if we all just did that, all of these crises would dissipate. In fact, half of them aren't even real anyways. . Yeah. Um, their way to control. But, you know, a any that are real would dissipate because I think the crisis is simply that we're not living in authenticity.

Jessi: Right. We're living out of fear. And as you said, that's all gonna crumble. And I think it's, it's beautiful. It's beautiful that it's crumbling. Let it crumble and, uh, let your authenticity come through.

Analena: Yeah. Before there's how many, there's chaos. . Yes, that's exactly, and it's also literally sometimes when you have this question, what's my purpose?

Analena: Just doing this work as you're living your purpose because you clearing out these karmic patterns and releasing this stuff, right. That is actually helping so many other, because you shine the light and then other people, they, it's, it's kind of contagious in some way. Yeah. And we have built now this big community all over the world already where people diving into genies, human design and really living one day authentic self.

Analena: That's the biggest service you can give to yourself and to others.

Jessi: Absolutely. Yeah. That time is well spent,

Analena: very well spent and, and the money will come, you know, and oftentimes in the most unpredictable ways. Mm-hmm. .

Jessi: So good. Thank you, Anna. Elena. Oh my gosh. I don't wanna say goodbye, but thank you, .

Analena: You're welcome. This was awesome. Thank you for having me.

Jessi Michel Agadoni: You are called to live differently, my friend. What is one way that you can honor your natural sensitivity today? Take that one step and if you feel uncertain, hesitant about how to navigate life as a natural sensitive, I have something for you. I've created the a. Calm method, a beautiful platform and resource to create your healthiest, most whole, authentic self.

We start with layer one of the reconnection, tuning into the body. Layer two, we dive into your authentic rhythm, how you're meant to eat, sleep, move, be, work, rest, recover. It's so unique to you and it's so critical that you understand that. And lastly, we finish by uncover. The remedies that work best for you, the tools, tonics and therapies that [00:38:00] will optimize your health and give you your capacity back.

Alongside all of this, we have the beautiful sensitive circle, a community where you can be seen and known, heard, and understood where you can share your process. As much or as little as you desire. If this intrigues you, the link to join is below. It is such an honor to have your ear and to share this episode with you.

Until we release our next I cheers to your health à votre santé.

Connect with Analena
@analena.fuchs
Analena on Facebook

1:1 Readings and Coaching

Resources

Gene Keys Free Profile Look Up

Jessi & Analena's Favorite Gene Key Books:

+ The Gene Keys - Embracing Your Higher Purpose

+ The 64 Ways - Personal Contemplation on the Gene Keys

Step into the Authentic Calm Method & Sensitive Circle to receive guidance and supportive community as you move towards your healthiest most authentic self!

---

To live authentically, rediscover your natural self, and restore your health as a Natural Sensitive (HSP), peruse the resources below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi