Episode 41: Healing Chronic illnesses & Finding Freedom with Shiloh Woodard

Conversation

Episode 41 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jessi Michel Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi: Shiloh, I'm so excited to have you on this podcast because it's been a long time coming. I mean, we, you were one of my first. Clients, really? Mm-hmm. Like back in the day, you, I will always remember you just putting trust in me and me being like, well, here we go. You know, and Right.

Shiloh: Oh gosh. It had to been scary for you.

Jessi: It wasn't scary. It was more just like, I think I felt the weight of the journey you had already been on, the amount of practitioners you'd already seen and just so deeply wanting you to see resolution and hope. And I felt at that season in your life, a deep hopelessness in you, if I may speak that over you at that time.

And so I think I just felt, I felt a deep, deep connection and calling to your journey of like holding that torch for you and holding that lighthouse and, and being that, that source of inspiration of like, we are going to get you. Back to you, you know, you'll be you again. And um, although I never promised, cuz I try not to ever promise anything.

I, I held it in my heart and I, I knew, I knew that we were gonna get you somewhere, but it is, I did feel the weight right off the bat of like, yeah, this is like, I felt this is big. You know, like this isn't just, oh Jesse, I have a few symptoms. Like, and so, right. It was more like the, the responsibility of just, no, I was really sick partnering with you on this.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, uh, so I think we've learned so much together. Yeah. Through your healing journey cuz we were partners through it and at least through the season, uh, where we went through it together. And it's been such an honor, honestly, to witness your fortitude, your perseverance, your, your just straight up grit.

Shiloh. Um, thank you. As we're gonna dive into deeply today, moving through challenging healing seasons. Takes a resilience that most people honestly don't have. And I ironically see mostly Insensitives, which is so counter to what our culture thinks of when they think of sensitives, but we actually have this crazy deep resilience to us, um, because we've kind of had to in order to just like move through this life seriously.

Um, so I'm, I'm so excited to have you on here to share your story and to just introduce this community to you. So, Give our, our listeners a little like, snapshot of just who you are in general, what you Oh, for living now, which is so fun. And then we'll just kind of start diving into the, uh, the beautiful story of the last couple of years.

Shiloh: Sure. Did you want like my age or what do you want?

I, um, here's my

Jessi: address, here's my right height, my type,

Shiloh: which I still dunno. So if you know, please let me know, guys. Um, thank, oh my gosh. I, um, am Shiloh. Hi. Nice to meet you all. Um, I am now currently an audiobook, narrator, specialing, uh, specializing specifically in romance audiobooks. I, I hope to expand into more genres as I come into this, but this is a brand new career for me where I get to combine two loves that I never thought I'd get to combine again, which are acting and well reading is always something I could do, but.

Wait, not always true. We'll get to that Anyway. Um, so I'm an audiobook narrator, that's why you're in my booth. And, I have so many other things that go to me to ask me who I am is, is monumental, but that's a nice sheen LinkedIn version. I love it.

Jessi: I love it. Mm-hmm. So, Shiloh, give us a little story about, you know, when did you first find out that you were sensitive and how did that register for you?

That's

Shiloh: a really fascinating question because it's two parts. I mean, I'm sure you get this with a lot of sensitives. We don't just answer the question normally because the question is so many other things. Mm-hmm. Um, when did I realize I was sensitive? Well, one, I didn't know sensitive was a thing. Mm-hmm.

Until I met you. Um, and you helped me label what I've always known about myself. Mm-hmm. Um, so you stopped me a couple years ago. Um, I would say in the concept of knowing that I was sensitive without the label mm-hmm. Um, that showed up. I would say, I would describe it as a feeling of being other, um, of being different than the other kids, different than those around me.

And that probably showed up

earliest memories. Um, being able to sense spirits, being able to see colors that aren't there, see, hear things. Um, love people in a way that others couldn't. Mm-hmm. Um, lead others in a way that others weren't. And that, and being called weird. Yeah, I mean, like honestly, if I had the proverbial nickel for every time I was called weird in my life, I would be so rich.

Um, and it's never like the cool, weird, yeah, it's, it's always the puppy dog. Weird. Like she's weird, but she's ours. Mm-hmm. Like, so it's, um, almost more insulting cuz there's cool, weird, um, where you can just be like Luna Lovegood in Harry Potter. Mm-hmm. Um, but also Luna Lovegood was only accepted by people because she hung around them.

So I, I kind of identify a lot with her and her strangeness, which was. It's a fascinating character. Unsung heroes of Harry Potter people. I love it. Podcast.

Jessi: That's amazing. I totally understand that. I think I oddball was kind of like the word that came to my mind a lot of, yeah. Just like, or people just like, you're just different.

Like, they almost couldn't put their finger on it. Like, yeah, I don't know what to do with you.

Shiloh: Right. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I would be called a lot of things, but I found that adults embraced me more mm-hmm. As a child than kids did.

Jessi: That's so common. Yeah. Right.

Shiloh: Because we understand adults. Mm-hmm. We can talk with adults as, as little kids in general, I'm assuming.

Mm-hmm. Um, that's the case. And I was always sick, but like I, I told you this, I didn't realize I was always sick until I started working with you and we started going through my history and I'm like, oh, I, I'm probably sick. Oh, that's always been

Jessi: my story, but I, I feel like I'm

Shiloh: a kind of a weird, sensitive, weird, and there's that word again.

We're embracing it today, people. I love it. Yeah. It's gonna be our recla it reclaim it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, is that, um, I am extroverted. Mm-hmm. Um, I, it's such a weird thing because I don't actually charge with people. I don't recharge. So I really am an introvert, but I adore people. I wanna be in all the parties.

I wanna do all the things with people I wanna play, like sign me up, coach put me in. So I didn't realize I was only sick. I thought that was normal because I still did all the sports, all the arts, all the things at school, got all the A's, did all the stuff. Um, which now I realize she needed a nap and to say no.

Less. Less is more. Less is more. Mm-hmm. But as a little kid in the brand new wide world, this was the world I wanted. So that is very much my personality. If anyone follows the agram, I'm a seven. Mm-hmm. Which is, odd to have as sensitive sensitives aren't normally gregarious, outgoing sevens. So please don't look at me and go, oh, I should be like her.

Jessi: I talk about this a lot. Every natural sensitive is different because I think, and there is a lot of use of this, of describing sensitivity as a personality trait. I don't really see it that way. I see it as an inborn trait. Um, which I mean, again, you could like wrap circles around how you define personality, but it's not something I feel like that we.

Put on, right? Like you put on a personality, it's who you are. And so introvert and extrovert is something that is also a trait. And I think what gets confusing is that the love of people, the love of connection, the love of relationships is separate from both of those things. Actually very well put. So a natural sensitive can be introverted or extroverted.

Uh, an introvert can be natural sensitive or not. Um, like those things are separate. Introversion, extroversion are separate from natural sensitivity. And then separate from that is even the love of people, you know? And, um, it's so funny, I've been talking a lot about this, of just this. We all have different levels of capacity and need for connection, and some of us are really wired to be connected.

Jessi: Uh, but not all of us are filled up by being around people. And that's at least how I define introvert and extroverts. So technically what I'm hearing you say is you are an introvert. You just love people. You love people, you love connection.

Mm-hmm. But your, your nervous system, your body can only handle so much before it's like, we need a, we need a break. Mm-hmm. And then we'll be back full force, you know? Right. Yes. That's, and we can't

Shiloh: wait. We can't wait, you know, right.

Jessi: Back and take a nap. Right. So, and that's, that's I think one of the biggest myths about sensitives is that we're people haters that we're, uh, that we are like these reclusive live in the mountain by ourselves, kind of people.

Now, I am more that way personally. Like I love people and I do have my. My extroverted moments, but, or my people loving moments. But I need so much time that I actually can't do that. Whereas you, I feel like you do actually fill up pretty quickly and you're able to bounce back and that connection is so strong.

Remind me, I should pull it up right now. Remind me what your profile is in human design. Shiloh, I have it on my phone, of course. I'm a

Shiloh: generator. Yeah. Profile generator.

Jessi: Do you remember what your profile numbers are?

Shiloh: The numbers are, oh God, I have it on my phone. Let me look. Um, I will say, I wanted to say something too about filling up.

Yeah. I could not fill up quickly unless I was healthy. Mm-hmm. Healthy. Let me, let me res restate that. Yeah. Have five, one. Yes. I'm trying, I'm still, I'm still learning these. Um, yeah. Yep. I'm a five one. The challenge solver. Mm-hmm. Um, But I, I could not fill up as quickly and you've known that, you've seen me through my journeys.

Um, a great, oh, one of my lights died. Oh. It's gonna get real dark and personal here. Fast. I love it. Um, welcome to the cave. Uh, so I would not have been able to recharge quickly. Mm-hmm. Um, relatively out. So without being on this healing journey without being relatively healthy. Yeah. Um, it's just, it's just a part of that.

But yeah, I'm a five one to answer your question. I love that. Yeah.

Jessi: I, it's funny cuz I would've, I, for some reason I was like, is she a four? I didn't think she had four in her profile, but, um, five ones, you know, you're, you're kind of the hero. You're tempted to fix everything because you technically can.

Shiloh: No, I can.

And could you please tell everyone that? Thank you. Just listen to me, people. I got you. Okay. No,

Jessi: that's one of the hardest, hardest profiles as a sensitive, because you literally can fix everything and you can be the hero in just about every situation. Um, but you're not here to do that for everyone. No.

You're here to first and foremost do it for you, and then as your capacity grows, you can extend it to others, which is I know, a big lesson we've learned together. Yeah.

Shiloh: From hard, you know, you've been really helpful with that. And Oh, there goes the other one. This is as tough as it gets people. Sorry. Just think of it as intimate.

You've taught me a lot in that. Where to give the energy, but what, more than what teaching, you've given me permission to say no. Mm-hmm. Um, so as a seven, as a generator, as a five, one saying no is very difficult. Mm-hmm. Um, being sick forced me. So back up.

I was sick with Lyme disease for 13 years. Mm-hmm. Um, active, terrible. Tried to kill me a couple times. Lyme disease. Um, stole my thirties, y'all. Um, and before that I had chronic Epstein bar, chronic fatigue syndrome for 15, 15 years. Mm-hmm. 17 years. And then before that I was just kind of sick all the time as a kid.

Um, so I haven't ever really experienced glowing health for any length of time until recently. Hmm. Therefore, having to say no. Was something I had to learn the hard way. Mm-hmm. Um, giving that permission to accept that lesson is something you did, you gave me that permission to accept the lesson that God was trying to like beat into my hood.

Take a nap for gosh sakes. Mm. That's, that's really,

Jessi: that's the hardest one for us is, is sensitives, is the acceptance of our 3D limitation. You know, you and I have had many, many deep conversations about this and you even more so this, we have this ethereal quality to us being in the spiritual world.

Being in the 45 D beyond realms is very easy for us. Mm-hmm. What's challenging for us is to step into this bag of skin and bones and to feel. Grounded in who we are in this dimension, in this lifetime. Uh, because it doesn't feel natural to us. It feels odd. We feel like we're aliens, you know, like what's going on.

Yeah. And so whether it's conscious or subconscious, and I think for you, it's been a very conscious thing of like, I just feel, I don't, this isn't me. Like what is happening here isn't me. And especially when, and that is ultimately what illness is, right? Is is it disconnection from the body. Mm-hmm. And saying, this body isn't me.

And so your journey has been so beautiful to observe as you've come back into the body, which was hard at first. Really hard. Yeah. It was very hard. And then eventually I saw you make that connection and suddenly your body was your friend, your body was your support system. Your body was something that you, I I heard it in your voice, this respect and this almost a protective, um, Attitude that came forward too, which was so beautiful to see.

And I know that that was a long journey cuz as you just shared, and we can dive into that more of like Sure. How, how much you had to work through and how many different people you had involved in. And when you're sick for that long, there's a way that culture and the way that your family and your friends will treat you and you start to, since that's mirrored back to you, you start to accept it, right?

Of this is who I am. Sure. Yeah. And um, and that's where it's like all I have to offer is to like give whatever I can and then, so there's no permission to say no, right? Mm-hmm. It just grows into this whole persona of like, I have to give what I can cuz I. I'm so limited, you know?

Shiloh: Taking back agency. Oh

Jessi: yeah. That's a beautiful way to say it. So share a little bit more with us about Yeah. That journey. What was it like? Um, I know this may be a little painful to go back to, but, uh, what was it like as a kid growing up? Feeling, feeling sick, feeling disconnected from your body?

Well,

Shiloh: I didn't realize that I was sick all the time. I just figured that was what people were. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's totally normal to have strep throat at least once a year. Um, totally normal to wake up and just not feel good. Mm-hmm. Um, and cuz it didn't stop me from living a full life. Mm-hmm. Um, because I was still in sports, I was still running around, I was still doing the things.

Um, I just happened to be very sick a couple times a year. And it might have been more than that, I don't remember, but I have a personality that's like sunshine and, and roses and mm-hmm. Rainbows and happy days. Um, naturally. So I tend to in, unfortunately, and this is an unfortunate thing, gloss over painful things.

Mm-hmm. Um, and that's something you and I worked on, I worked on separately with a therapist as well mm-hmm. Is to feel the painful things, acknowledge that they're there and not feel like you have to be condemned because you're in pain. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I, we often say judge a lot and I think we actually misuse that word a lot, um, because judging is not inherently bad.

Condemning is bad if you don't know the whole story. Um, so because we, we judge on a very surface level all the time, so judging that I have pain, meaning I'm determining. If I have pain, um, and then acknowledging that there's pain there and then not condemning myself for it or trying to shift the pain.

Um, for those of us that are happy-go-lucky people all the freaking time, inherently, um, it's very hard to not shift uncomfortable feelings and to try to, um, pull out some kind of alchemy and to change them into a rainbow. And the truth is, is that, that that diminishes the need of the pain. Do you know what I mean?

Absolutely. We're here to learn that lesson and if we won't learn that lesson unless we feel it. Yeah. And that's something I've been sharing with a friend recently too, cuz they have a beautiful heart and they just want to heal people and they can. Um, here's the problem with that though. If you don't allow a person to have their struggles, you, you are robbing from them, you are stealing the joy and the greatness that they can become.

Mm-hmm. That they are. If you instead stand beside guide support, then you can help them through the difficult trauma and, and problems that they have. I don't know what we were talking about. I just went off on a tangent. No,

Jessi: very well said. You just hit on a point that I think is, is so, so important. Um, and that goes back to the lesson we were talking about earlier of this desire to rescue right.

To be the hero. And, and so, you know, that can translate as never saying no. Mm-hmm. And as sensitives, because we, and especially you, since you're clairvoyant and able to really tune into people, uh, you can feel things that other people don't, don't even know exists inside of them. Yeah. And so there is such this huge draw in you to help them along their journey, their healing journey.

Um, and it sounds like you're friends the same way, but if that individual isn't able to learn the lesson themselves, it's never gonna register and it's Yeah, you're right. You're robbing them of the lessons of, cuz it's the process that causes the learning. Right. Not necessarily the end result. So yeah,

Shiloh: you don't wanna be Jurassic Park.

You want them to, to be natural history, not Jurassic Park. Don't skip the steps. I love it. Just saying, keeping a rail over here. Oh, I like that analogy. That's so good. Don't be Jurassic Park people.

Jessi: Ah, okay. So let me bring us back. Cause you and I together are rabbit trails galore, right? So, well the energy

Shiloh: just expands.

I know. And our like spirit selves are like, cool, we're gonna go dance over here. Over here. Al selves are like, dude, come back ladies, remember you love our bodies. Oh my gosh.

Jessi: Yeah. So I mean, so you shared with us that your childhood, it was hard, but you didn't register it that way, which is very normal.

Honestly, I've heard. Same for me. I've heard this same for you. So many sensitive because it's also a survival mechanism and Sure. Uh, if we come across as happy, nice girls. Then there's more acceptance, there's less rejection because we already have a tendency to be quote unquote weird oddballs, whatever.

So we do everything in our power consciously, but mostly subconsciously to be accepted. Right? Mm-hmm. And that of course, comes out in different ways based off of Yeah, the environment for sure. We grew up in and all of that. So it sounds like that was totally your story. At what point did you hit a physical level?

Cuz I, this happens to all sensitives. We hit a point where the body's like, I can't do this anymore. And it gives us a signal. It gives us a message that is so loud that we can no longer progress at the same momentum that we had before. And we have to stop. Did you receive a, a disease label? Was there a moment?

I'm saying that

Shiloh: that was always happening. Um, hence why I was always getting sick. Um, but the first time, which I did not heed cuz I was 12, 11, 12. I was in sixth grade, I caught, um, Epstein Bar. Mm. And that's the granddaddy of Mono. And I was out of school days for 23 days. And so, which I think equates to two full months.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's really, it was intense. Um, I watched a lot of Beauty and the Beast, you guys, just everyone, it's a great one. And an edited version. Edited version of working girls. So, cause the non edited version not okay for little kids, but edited, it's fine. I love it. So I, I did that and I read a lot and, um, I got through sixth grade and just acknowledged that there was gonna be times throughout my teen years where I needed a few days off of school.

Mm. And I'm so lucky I have parents that truly understand me. And if they don't understand the complexity of who I am, because who, who really sees everything, um, they are willing to accept what I've discovered along my journey mm-hmm. And adapt as they see fit. So I've really had good support throughout my, my life in regards to illnesses.

My parents never disbelieved me. Um, so I was never forced to go to school when I, I just couldn't get out of bed. Um, they fully were like, okay, no, you're sick. So I never felt that, condemnation from them in regards to my illness. Um, but I a hundred percent have felt that from doctors.

Yeah. Um, especially in the eighties and nineties where chronic fatigue syndrome was controversial. Um, it's no longer that way, but it was during that time and people, some doctors were like, it's not real. It's in your head. I'm like, this is not the 18 hundreds. I'm not having vapors. Like, and vapors were probably some chronic illness that was not diagnosed.

Shiloh: But it was hard. And so I still sometimes have that kind of fear with doctors that they're going to say, I'm fine when I'm, I know I'm not fine. Mm-hmm. Um, thankfully I've found some great healthcare practitioners to surround myself with and who believe me. Mm-hmm. And I, I, the key to that is being comfortable enough to tell telehealth care practitioner, thank you.

This is, this is the end of our journey together. Mm-hmm. I appreciate all you've done for me, but I can't do this and being your own advocate. Um, and I would not have known to do that if my mother wasn't such a strong advocate for my health and. The health of her, her parents as they were passing and learning what it means to truly say, no, give me this test.

Mm-hmm. No, I'm not taking that medicine. Let's find another solution. Because doctors are brilliant people who have done a wonderful job learning something, but they only know so much in this very, very big field. Mm-hmm. And they can only offer so much of their wisdom. Mm-hmm. So I'm a big proponent of having at least three different healthcare practitioners to at least three to round out and balance out the perspective.

And if you can't do three, then do at least two, get an allopathic and a naturopathic holistic, traditional, what we're gonna call traditional medicine, but then also the Americanized standard. Mm-hmm. Healthcare, because I think it's important to live in both worlds. Yeah. For me personally, that's not everyone's journey.

And if anything, I've learned through this journey, Jessie, and you know this is that every body is different. Yes. Like my diet is not gonna be your diet, it's not gonna be her diet. Mm-hmm. My medication and my supplement's not yours. There's some similarities. Sure. But just cuz we're human after that, forget it.

So, and I think that process of learning to trust yourself is really actually what healing is about. Mm. Mm-hmm. I'm just talking a lot. I love that. So, I love other questions.

Jessi: Yeah. So, uh, at what point did you start to realize like, okay, this is really serious. This is something I have to kind of pull back on my life on even more.

Um, like where you mentioned like your thirties really kind of got stolen from you. What did that look like? Well, I

Shiloh: would say it actually started at 20. Mm-hmm. Um, truly, truly 20. Um, so. I was in school up in Seattle. I was working on a theology and theater degree. Um, I was there on a theater scholarship, acting people.

It's my life. Um, and I got black mold poisoning and very, very sick. And I thought, well, maybe it's the chronic fatigue acting up. We didn't know what I had, but there was a huge spot of black mold in my apartment at the time up in Seattle. And I had to quit school. My dad had to drive up. I was 20, um, before he drove up and took me.

I had to get through that quarter and I had a friend literally prop me up in class and she would help take notes for me and we would just get through. I just got through that quarter and it took about a year and a half, um, for me to get back on my feet, to finish my degree, to move forward. But I never really truly healed from that process.

Yeah. Um, because I didn't understand all the things that I shouldn't have been doing for my body. Um, but I did know that working was hard. I could only do part-time work, um, and ultimately ended up as a massage therapist, which is fantastic cuz I get to help heal people. But did I understand how to block energy very well?

No. So touching that many people in a day, all that energy, all of their stuff. And then the natural desire to take the pain and literally taking the pain away. Some of you sensitives will understand what that's, that's like Yep. Is not healthy. Mm-hmm. Um, so in that state of a compromised energetic body, a compromised immune system, I then caught Lyme disease at 29.

Um, And I caught it in Southern California. And yes, it can happen. Don't believe what mainstream medicine tells you. Um, and I didn't know what Lyme disease was. I just knew I couldn't work. Mm-hmm. I was very tired. My, my body hurt, my face swelled up on one side and fell. I had phantom dental pain. Walking was ridiculously hard.

I started stuttering. I couldn't find words. I started seeing things hallucinating, hearing things, pain when there was the slightest breeze. Um, I mean, body shaking pain. And, uh, they finally found it. I, I tested positive for Lyme and the normal western medicine doctor was like, cool, awesome. We're gonna put you on IV antibiotics every day for a month.

Um, did not prescribe. Probiotics did not prescribe, anything for gut health. And basically went in with Rocephin, which is like, it's like going in with a lot of artillery and just like oblating a, a country town. Yeah. With no support and then, then, you know, walking out and going, okay, well rebuild yourself, but they obliterated the lumber yards, everything.

There was nothing to rebuild. Um, and after the month she's like, okay, well everything else you're experiencing is post line syndrome and I can't help you. I'm like, but I'm getting worse. Like, this isn't just static. This is getting significantly worse and I got much worse. Um, thankfully an uncle of mine was like, Hey, you need to check this out, this kind of world.

Go look for a Lyme literate doctor. They don't generally accept insurance because there's a. So political people. So political. Mm-hmm. Great documentaries out there. One is called Under Our Skin. I recommend you watching it. Mm-hmm. But I found a Lyme letter doctor and I'm so thankful for her. Um, she is an integrative medicine practitioner, so she used to work in the ER but wanted to incorporate a lot of holistic health into her practice.

And it was great. It really, really helped. I did, I did come close to death a couple times. Um, but that wasn't because of her, that was because of the disease. And I will forever be thankful for the journey that I went on with her. She brought me to a place where I went into my first bout of remission with Lyme and really I realized it was just a quiet plateau cuz it wasn't fully remitted, it just was quiet.

And, um, but I'm so thankful for the work we did together. I was on IV antibiotics with her for about two years. But the difference is she pumped me full of supplements, changed my diet, um, had me build up my gut as much as I could. Mm-hmm. And changed everything. And then, um, we know you can only go so far, and I was still not better.

So I then switched to a natural path who was fantastic. I was really appreciative of all that I learned there. Um, I learned quite a bit, um, about different modalities of healing. And, um, I'm forever grateful for that too, but I was not getting the true health that I sought. That's when I met you. Mm-hmm. So this was 13 years.

Mm-hmm. Actually when I met you, I think I'd only been in it for 11 years at that point. Hmm. Um, and, but it was, and then you and I, we started a different journey in a different path. And because of your sensitivity and your, your deep thirst for knowledge, knew and know so much more.

About how to rebuild a body holistically. Mm-hmm. It's something that's missing, um, in modern medicine and mainstream medicine, I should say. Um, because you understand, you, you're very modern. You use all kinds of tests and well formulated supplements, so modern is the wrong word. Um, but you, you don't just board your knowledge.

You share your knowledge and you teach your clients how to care for themselves, um, which is a gift. And now some people can take that knowledge and, and grow with it and use it, and others just wanna be like, you do the work and that's fine. You allowed that in both spaces and it's, it's great. And, It's been a, it's been a tough journey, but yes.

Lyme disease stopped my life at 29. Literally stopped it. Mm-hmm. Um, I was bedridden for years. Um, but there's some, there's some good that came out of it. See, shifting. Shifting the uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessi: Lyme is one of the biggest challenges I think the body can face cuz Lyme is really an umbrella term.

Uh mm-hmm. There's so many co-infections and things that occur under that title, uh mm-hmm. That are less even lesser known. Um, but it's, it is also an opportunity to really come to know the body. And Shiloh, you made the most of that opportunity. You really did. Uh, and that's not to take away from the intense.

Challenge that it was, uh, but that is always the hope that if something really horrific happens, that there is still beauty to be found within it. Absolutely. And as you've shared, I think it's a gifting of yours to find that, to find the diamond, to find the rainbow within, you know, during and even after the storm.

Yeah. Um, but it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that journey and I think. So many things you said are so helpful for anyone that's on a journey. Uh, technically we all are on a healing journey in general. And then there's these big healing seasons, you know, that we can go through, especially sensitives and you've gone through many big healing seasons.

Um, thank you. But I love what you said of, I'm a huge fan too, of having a team. Mm-hmm. Uh, because then you're not putting one practitioner on a pedestal as, as God. Right. Right, right. And so then you just do whatever they say and you're kind of like at their, their whim. Um, and you're subject to their personal limitations.

Cuz every practitioner has limitations. And so to be able to diversify and say, Hey, I see value in all different kinds of healing, all different kinds of training, and let's bring it all in, you know? Yeah. Let's not have any limits here. So I fully agree with that. And I think that was to your, to your benefit.

And uh, and even still, like I feel like each person we touch, even if they don't maybe give us what we were hoping for in the moment. I know it's same journey for me. I sought so many practitioners on my healing journey. Yeah. But each one of them gave us some knowledge about ourselves that we have forever.

Right. And it's absolutely, it's a gift. And so, but there was something that was missing and so it launched us to the next person, which we needed that launch, that catalyst. Mm-hmm. And so on and so forth. And so I think there is beauty too in allowing yourself the freedom to progress because as sensitives, I dunno if this happened to you a lot, but.

With me. I felt so emotionally tied to my practitioners that I would stay with them longer than I should have. Cause I felt guilty. I felt like almost like they needed me, which was like a weird thing. But I, I had a hard time releasing. And so I see that a lot with other senses. There's like this, we're very loyal people and yeah, we are.

And so feeling that permission to say, you know, I respect that person, but this is actually about me this time. Like, I have to put my body first and my body needs either another practitioner or another approach, or another, uh, way of thinking, another perspective, another therapy. And so I have to expand and go elsewhere.

Uh, so that is, that's huge. I'm, I'm so proud of you for moving and progressing and growing and expanding and, uh, Yeah. And being able to see that too, that's huge.

Shiloh: It's hard. I think it really helped to have such a good support system at home. It's not perfect. Nothing really truly is perfect, but it's been very, very good to have a sounding board, to have people to support me, people to hold me up, literally.

Mm-hmm. Um, and I know so many people who have not that I don't have that. Yeah. And that to me is the most tragic part. And I know so many people who have quit on their journey to health and they accept the Meyer that they're stuck in. They they're stuck there. And something I learned when I was very, very sick is that there is at least one perfect moment of every day.

We as humans have a deep desire for perfection. It clause at ours inside, but we also know it's not attainable, in this life. That being said, there is a perfect moment, at least one in every day. And it could be just a second, a less than a second, but if you seek it out and find it, it kind of gives that renewed hope that there's something beautiful in every day that you're gonna find.

it can be a day riddled with pain, excruciating pain and seizures and, horror but that one moment, whether it's the sunset or a breeze that didn't hurt or a sip of coffee, I know we'll talk about coffee later, but that little, that little moment of sheer bliss, that perfection is there. And I tell people that, but that, that really did help me.

Yeah. Get through some real dark times. And, um, I mean, you, you were with me on a really, well, we could talk forever, but you were with me on some really dark stuff. In including the mental health where all my neurotransmitters tanked. Thanks, COVID. Yeah. Um, it just, they tanked. And so, and it's so strange to tell people that I was depressed and had anxiety, but I was not depressed, nor did I have anxiety.

Um, cuz they're like, what are you talking about? I said, well, well, there is a difference. There is physical anxiety and physical depression where your body just doesn't work. it feels the anxiety, it feels everything, but, you know, somewhere deep inside you, you're fine. Like you're having a good emotional day, but the body is so messed up that it, it will, it will feel that anxiety for you.

Mm-hmm. And so it takes your mind and your spirit into that world and it is so hard. Mm-hmm. So hard to get through that. Thankfully we got through it. Mm-hmm. Lots of supplements, therapy. We're good now. Life is fine. But it's a very, the body, man body, right? We can learn so much once we learn what those little things are, that kind of lead.

But it's so important to have a guide, with you on that journey. Someone to point at you and go, oh, well, the reason you are feeling like the world is ending when you wake up is because your tyrosine levels are low. What do you mean? Well, your epinephrine needs some help. What do you mean? You mean I'm not just a morose person?

No, you're not. You're look at this test When you feel this kind of headache, you need to take this supplement because you're tanking on this level of a neurotransmitter. And it's different for everybody, but it's so helpful to have somebody just say, Hey, guess what? That little weird tummy ache you're feeling isn't just because you, you're human.

It's because you actually have Giardia. You know, it's like, oh, oh, that's a real thing. You can get in a real world. It's a real thing. People watch out in Vegas. I'm just saying, oh, don't drink the water. Um, but anyway, I, I'm blabbing. I don't know where I'm going with it.

Jessi: Oh, I'm just sitting here like, so proud of you.

I'm just

Shiloh: Thank you. Like a little mother hand, just like, whoa. I, I remember what I wanted to say. Um, because you stop working with a practitioner doesn't mean that they're horrible or you are horrible. Mm. It doesn't, it just means that that's the time I, I grieved when we stopped working together. Mm mm-hmm.

It was the time to stop working together. Mm-hmm. Um, on my health. Mm-hmm. But I grieved. It also was the same time, my therapist was like, well, you're healthy now. I'm like, mm-hmm. If she left me and I was just, I remember you were like, it was the end of here. End the end of the year too. And I'm like, are you kidding me?

But it's important to go through that. It's important to, to understand that things are gonna change. And I don't know if this is a sensitive thing. I hate change. Hmm. Hate change. It's hard

for

Jessi: us as sensitives. Definitely.

Shiloh: It completely happens all the time. Every day. No matter what you do, nothing's gonna stay the same.

And you can't control your environment. And that's the other thing too. I don't know if you do this, but I do this, I am so picky about controlling my environment. Mm-hmm. As much as I can. Mm-hmm. Um, and I've stopped caring. If people think I'm, what is it? I'm gonna say a bad word, people. If people think I'm a bitch, I don't care.

Jessi: Yeah. That's power right there.

Shiloh: It's just don't give a fuck. Right. Exactly.

Jessi: That's, that is healing is arriving at that place. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Spur a sensitive at least. It's huge. It's huge. It's, it's hard. I mean, I still feel

Shiloh: like I don't wanna be self-absorbed. Mm-hmm. Um, but there is an element of self-absorption that has to come with healing.

Mm-hmm. Um, because nobody else is gonna do it for you. Exactly. Nobody knows what your body feels like, but

Jessi: it's called stewardship.

Shiloh: Yeah. That's a good way of looking at it, but mm-hmm. Wanting to make life easier for everyone else is a huge driving force of me that I have to channel into different mm-hmm.

Ways of doing that in a healthy manner. Yeah. So, yes. Do I wanna make people comfortable? Sure. At the expense of myself anymore? No. And that is such a hard, uncomfortable feeling to live with as somebody, because I, I can feel when somebody's disappointed, sad, angry, mad. Mm-hmm. And I, I all of their thoughts and feelings, whether they feel it or not, whether they acknowledge it.

Yeah.

Jessi: You have to process that. It's hard cuz when we as sensitive say no, it's not just like, oh, then we're done. It's like we have to process that person's experience of us saying no as well as like how we feel saying no. And then just the whole, the whole thing. It's so much work. And I think yeah. Saying no is more exhausting in many ways than saying Yes.

Yep. In, at least in the short term. And so it can be very tempting, especially when we're low on energy, low on capacity. Ironically, we tend to lean towards just saying yes because it seems like in the moment the easiest thing. Yeah.

Shiloh: Well also too, our, our guards are down more. Mm-hmm. Um, our protective barriers.

Yeah. They're all, they're all down. And so it's, if we just go along, then we can conserve the energy, like you were saying. Yeah. But also we don't have, our natural inclination is to say Yes. So our natural inclination is going to be Yes. When we are not feeling well. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's hard. Yeah. I've, I've literally had to have to, I've literally had to have people tell me to go take a nap.

Like

Jessi: I, I know I did it for years.

Shiloh: Yeah, I know, right? No, you're gonna go take a nap. Go sit down, stop. Lay down. Like one of the first things that you had me do was just lay in bed until like nine, and I'm like, Why? Yeah, I hate

Jessi: her, but this feels

Shiloh: good, but ugh,

how dare she tell me to sleep? How dare she lay horizontal? So know. I was like, no, I can't do this. You're not letting me play. You're, oh my gosh. Yeah. For those that are listening, that really happened. For those

Jessi: that are listening, that, I mean obviously, you know, um, my clientele is a quite a small group cause I'm very selective, but, I always forget that people don't know how I work with people, but one of the things I offer is, uh, a chat feature.

And so we have our sessions and they're pretty regular, but we have this continual conversation that I think is a big part of my healing. Huge part, huge part of it. And so just the amount of messages I would get from Shiloh about like, so I feel amazing today. I think I wanna get a puppy or I, I feel amazing today.

I think I would go do this. I'm like, so you had one good day.

Shiloh: Let's maybe build up our reserves a bit.

Jessi: Before we start caring for another being again, like let's just take

Shiloh: a beat. That is the most accurate description of me. Oh my God. Anyone has ever brought, it was hilarious

Jessi: cuz I was just like, my heart was like, I know how badly, like you want to love on animals and people and all these things.

And so it was hard even for me to be like,

Shiloh: no, shy. Like

Jessi: let's think about this. And also trying to like encourage you to like get into that frame of mind of like my body first, my body first, my body first. Because I don't ever want to, and I don't think we should ever quell our natural love and desire for serving and caring for people.

That's literally why we're here. It's our gifting, but we just do it backwards. And so it's retraining ourselves to care for ourselves, build up our capacity, build up our reserves, and then from that place, We can love and just drown people in our joy and in our carings. Right, right. But, uh, we have to have those reserves first.

And that is honestly where sickness comes from, is not having the reserves and constantly giving out and out, out from a place of depletion. You're just, there's nothing. It's like you're, yeah. You just giving from an empty bucket. You're in the negative. And, uh, and so it was, it was beautiful to when you started, at least from my perspective, when you started to see those results and you started to feel Yeah.

Huge energy return. And you were like, oh my gosh. And I think there was part of you, at least from my perspective, that was like, oh. We don't know when we'll have this again. So we gotta make the most of this moment because we're, we know we could lose it any second. And over time it started to, you started to rebuild that trust in your body of mm-hmm.

Oh, this is here to stay. Oh, I can rebuild this. Oh, I have control over this. Oh. Like, then it was like, okay, yeah,

Shiloh: this is amazing. It's a really, um, uncomfortable feeling actually. Mm-hmm. Um, to have that kind of excitement because after decades and decades of not, of knowing that it's gonna go away. Yeah. And then to believe that it, it's not is truly freeing, but freedom is scary.

Mm-hmm. And there's a reason why people will politically keep, keep trying to bring in dictatorships people who wanna control them. And, and that's not same one way or the other. I think we often want people to. Um, contain us because true freedom is terrifying. Mm-hmm. And to have the freedom of help is, it's almost like being given the lottery and, and you're just like, is it real?

Is it mine? Do I get to really keep it? Are you gonna come and take it away in a year? Mm-hmm. Um, but that's kind of also just living,

I think working so hard to get here, um, shows me I can do it again. Absolutely. If I have to fall back. But I also now have a lot of. Different clues to tell me when I've been pushing too hard. Mm-hmm. Um, for example, I gotta tell you, like, I think I told you this already, but listen to me, I'm just going to keep talking your poor podcast.

It's just Shilah. This is,

Jessi: this is my podcast. Welcome. This is how it goes.

Shiloh: Okay. Uh, um, I was gonna say, so last week I caught shingles. Mm-hmm. Which I was gonna tie into a couple of the things. I felt very sick last Monday, but it started Sunday evening and I thought, okay, I felt really sick. I don't know what's wrong with me.

Um, and then my mom came back on that Monday after an appointment and said she had shingles and I'm, I live with her and I'd given her a massage for Mother's Day over that lovely area. And although my immune system is much better, it's not perfect. So, um, I still did not have a rash. I didn't have anything pop up, so there was no thing but.

Thankfully, because I have wonderful doctors who trust and believe me mm-hmm. Listened to my symptoms and went, oh yeah, no, you probably have it. Put me on antivirals because I've worked with you. I know when I go on something that's that hardcore, um, there are some certain up supplements I gotta bring back into my regimen and certain supplements I need up.

And I did that and I was sick and I did break out in a rash on around my eye. It was very gentle. It wasn't the pain that you would experience in shingles. Um, it itched. I was six six sick for a week. I'm still not a hundred percent. That's fine. Um, but because of the work we've done where I have to pay attention to the minutiae of my body, so that is now almost, I don't pay, like, I'm not aware that I'm paying attention to it.

Mm-hmm. Dramatic. Um, you feel I felt sick instantly. Mm-hmm. Versus the three, four days it takes for it to incubate and become a thing. And because I could feel it instantly. And I took the medicine right away. I did not have the, the tremendous problems that can come with shingles, thank God. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think that is the beauty of being a sensitive is that you're gonna feel when, like, I felt this way when I caught covid both times.

Shiloh: You remember? Oh, yeah. Um, I felt it days before it popped up on a test, and it's not, it's not, um, what is it called when people are hypo hypochondria? Oh, right. It's not mm-hmm. Hypochondrial. Mm-hmm. It's, it's just, it just is like, I know my body way better than anybody else does. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And if you surround yourself with people like I did, who believe you mm-hmm.

And know the kind of stuff you've lived through, and they will give you the support that you need, then you can move forward. And not put yourself in a super damaging space. Mm-hmm. Health-wise. So I guess what my point is, is that once given the gift of the freedom of health, I have learned what it takes to maintain it.

And that is paying attention to the little list of things and doing it in a way that you're not, like in the beginning and through the journey, you're like, oh my gosh, you tell everybody, everybody what your symptoms are all day long. You lose friends, it's okay. You'll get more later. And once you get to a place of help, you can just, you just know, you just run in, it's like a constant computer running in the background.

Your brain, you're running checks all the time, so you are no longer consciously having to process it with yourself or with others. You just kind of go, bing. Oh, that's why I had migraines for a week. Got it. Boom. Take this and it. It helps a lot. Yeah, it helps a lot. Did I talking a lot? That's perfect.

Jessi: What you're describing, Shiloh, is everything we work towards, which is helping you ultimately.

Translate what your body is asking of you. That is true health because, and I know we've talked about this a lot, the reality that, oh, I, I just like do this test, I take these supplements, or I take this medication and then I'm done and I'm perfect. And if something goes wrong after that, then like something, like something's wrong with me.

You know? It's like, no, your body is meant to go through many different seasons and you're gonna be exposed to things and you're going to be, you're going to get sick and like stuff is going to happen. It's not about that. And it's not about managing that. It's about having a body that is number one resilient and has a solid foundational, healthy base that if whatever comes your way, you're able to move through it with ease.

And the second is that you can read the signs, you can translate the language of your body because most people, most sensitives, they. They've disconnected so much from their body that they can't hear those messages, or they're, they've associated them with the wrong things, which is super common, right? Um, because they're, they're trying to figure it out, but it's, they've, they've disconnected.

So it's not super clear. And sometimes, honestly, it does require some training. And so you and I did a lot of training on that of like, okay, shallow, you're feeling this symptom. What is your body asking for? You know? And together as a partnership, we uncovered that through testing, through experimentation, through trial and error.

Um, because your body is unique, there is no other Shiloh, right? So together we found the language of your body, we interpreted it. And now you have that tool and you can be the advocate. You can be. The literal voice for your physical body with whatever practitioner you want and choose with whatever therapy you want.

Like, you can make that call. And so you are now in the driver's seat again, as opposed to giving away the keys, right. To a doctor, someone with a fancy degree or even that cool, famous, functional, you know, practitioner. Yeah. I don don't care what world they're from, but very true. We, we tend to do that. Like you said, we almost wanna give it away because it feels easier to just be told what to do than to actually, like people talk about, oh, we need to find the root cause.

Like that's so, you know, that's, that's the trendy thing in my world. Like what's the root cause? Like don't just treat the symptoms, treat the root cause, which I love that. But let's go deeper than that. I mean,

Shiloh: let's go deeper than that. How

Jessi: do we actually like resolve the disconnect that has created that quote unquote root cause?

Like how about the actual environment in where. You're not even listening to what's going on. So I think you reestablished that, that true foundation.

Shiloh: Well, I think Thank you. And it was, it was a lot of work on your part, um, helping me do that, and I'm appreciative of that. I also think that as sensitive, we tend to live so much in the spirit realm.

Hmm. Um, whatever that looks like for your own spiritual journey. But yeah, in general, energetically, um, mentally we just check out, um, of this body mm-hmm. Because we're paying attention to so many other things that are coming at us, that it's, the, the information is just as strong. It's, it's coming at us at all the same kind of level mm-hmm.

Of information. And so, um, because a spiritual realm is more attractive, because there's more questions there. Mm-hmm. I think we tend to live there more. Um, and I think that's where the disconnect comes from the body. Yeah. And I mean, it could be different. I know that that's the case for me also, pain is not my friend.

Mm-hmm. Except it is my friend.

Jessi: Nice. Yeah. It's, it's hard, but it is your friend. Yeah. Right.

Shiloh: I feel like I'm that friend a lot to a lot of people. Like you are my pain, Shiloh. Um, cause I don't shy away from telling people truths. Yeah. Um, and pain is only telling you truth. Oh, that's, that's awesome. That's so good.

Yeah. It's just telling you truth. Mm-hmm. And it's not gonna lie to you. Pain never lies. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's not posy. It's not gonna make you feel all the good things all the time. But yeah. It's not gonna lie though. Learning to live with pain, um, I think is a mistake. Mm-hmm. Um, because you don't, you shouldn't live with it because when you live with something, you ignore it.

Mm-hmm. Um, I think rather it's, it's more like a child that is screaming all the time. You need to acknowledge that your child is screaming, find out why they're screaming. Um, and then if you can sue that, soothe it. But that's my, that's my take on it. I

Jessi: love that illustration. That's really helpful. Thanks.

Thank you for sharing, Shiloh. I thank you. I have like a few more questions that I, I wanna run by you before I fully let you go. Cause I know there's probably people that are listening, they're like, oh my gosh, tell me more. Um, I think one thing I wanted to talk about a little bit, because this is not something I I see often or hear often, and it's something I'm, I'm personally passionate about.

And I know we've walked through it and I feel like you did a really good job of it. So I want, even though it was hard, I wanna talk about what it looks like to finish a healing season. Because like I said, we all are on a healing journey, but we have these seasons and there is a tendency, especially if you've experienced chronic illness, to just keep going and going and going and going.

Sure, sure. And, uh, I'm really passionate about saying there is a stopping point at which you now don't need me. And there's Right.

Shiloh: That's not cool, man.

Jessi: And I know that. I, I remember being like, I need to have this conversation with Shiloh. It's time. Mm-hmm. Like, she is ready and I can, I felt, um, I felt from you this split of you, you knew you were ready.

I think you knew deep down. I knew, but also this, like, but I love what we've had and I, and I feel so safe with you and I, what if something happens? You know, I want, I want connection. Um, and, and for me as a practitioner to be like fully transparent with you, like, and with everyone listening, there's also that pull of like, oh, I, I've built a relationship with you, you know, and I cherish it and I love being a support system to you.

Um. Mm-hmm. But as a sensitive, it's important for me to acknowledge when I. I, you know, it's like, no, it's time for me. Like, she is good now. She doesn't like, she doesn't Right. Any longer need my partnership. And if I remained, it would create this codependent relationship that is not healthy and would not support you or I, right?

And so it's tough when that starts to arise and you're like, Ooh, it's hard. It's hard. It was so beautiful. I remember having the conversation with you and you being like, okay, I know I was, it was hard, but I was so proud. I was so proud of you and thanks. And even since then, you know, the, the conversations we've had, the dms we've had of just like, yeah, I've seen you work so hard to hold healthy boundaries and to, I try, I try something.

I know. And I'm so, so proud of you and, and also to see you say like, I've got this, you know, like you've taught me, I know what to do. I'm going to trust my body. And even like yeah, with the shingles that recently happened, just getting to hear about that and it's, it's

Shiloh: beautiful.

Jessi: Yeah.

Shiloh: All the guys, I blame her because I caught Covid like a week after we stopped working together.

So I'm just saying, but I, I, and I, you know, you were so good with me cuz it was so brand new that I had, that we had stopped working together that I was like, I know I'm not supposed to ask you, but I don't remember the supplements for Covid. It was, I felt so bad. No, I, because one of the biggest things I think about this health journey is really understanding what boundaries mean and what they are, and boundaries are sacred to me.

And so I'm that person that will be like, if this is the boundary, and I've, I've told you this before too, since we've stopped working together, I've been like, if this is a boundary, you have to tell me. I dunno, but is this the line? Is this the line? Yeah. But it's not me testing it. It's not me trying to find or push or poke or be a grad.

It's just trying to navigate and shift and change, um, relationship. Um, because it's so important to not walk away. So it was hard, like I said. So the transition was difficult. Um, it was true grieving in the sense that I was losing you and my therapist. Two huge supports in my life, my daily life for years.

Mm-hmm. Um, But it was also a beautiful strength because I was healthy. I'm now healthier than most people in the room that I'm in. I still have allergies, but they're resolving, which like what allergies don't resolve unless you've worked with Jesse. Um, that's not a promise people, it's just a, I don't make promises.

No promises, no promises. But you did tell me your allergies will lessen. And I'm like, okay. And guys, my allergies were so bad. Oh yeah. I put a quick

Jessi: rundown on that cause I have no idea like how big of a deal that is.

Shiloh: Oh, okay. Uh, I forget. So, no, I'm allergic to, or I was allergic. I'm not claiming it now, but I was allergic to so many things to the point where my diet was very limited.

Um, it is limited still, but nothing like it was, um, I couldn't leave the house for months. During the spring, summer, sometimes fall. Um, if I did, it would have to be very quick. I couldn't breathe. I was on oxygen tanks, so

Jessi: many prescriptions,

Shiloh: so many, and I'm still on those prescriptions, but I'm coming down off of them.

I'm slowly able to kind of let them go. I've changed out medications since then. I've, um, moved from like Claritin to a holistic version that's healthier for my body, which is actually teaching my body to build histamines. Mm-hmm. Um, right. Histamines, well, whatever. Anyway, it's

Jessi: helpful to properly clear them.

Yeah. Keep going. Yeah. And so it's fine.

Shiloh: And so, but what we learned is that my gut health is the essential key component. Mm-hmm. Now, I will still struggle with some of that until I'm able to come off of the cortisol. Mm-hmm. Steroids, whatever. Once I'm able to get off of all of my inhalers. But to give you an idea, guys, this time last year, I would not have been able to have this conversation for this long, during this time of year.

Uh, the year before that, I wouldn't be able to have a conversation at all. The year before that, I would've been in bed with oxygen. and not moving, cuz moving. I couldn't breathe. Mm-hmm. So yes, I'm still on two inhalers twice a day and a shot I take every two weeks, but it's a different dosage than it was before.

And I'm able to hold a career where I can talk. And I can go outside, not for long periods at the moment, but I can go outside. So during the winter though, I was able to go outside for all day and be fine. Where the year before. So last year, that wasn't a possibility. I could go out for an hour total. Um, so spring, you know, we're in a super bloom here in southern California this year.

Yeah. And you

Jessi: live in the country too, like in the middle? I live in

Shiloh: the country, so it's pretty, pretty intense. It's intense, y'all, but it's, I can, I can handle it. Um, I just, I have air, air filters, I've got all the things, but I'm able to go outside and be okay. And not immediately go, which I was doing so.

The fact that I can heal, and my parents are so cute. They're like, when do we get to get a dog again? Like, you're so healthy now. When can we get a pet? I'm like, yo, hold back. Because they've learned to say no. I'm so, so proud of you right now. I know, right? Well, I'm, I'm getting that dog, Jessie. I know.

You're, I'm, I'm figuring out how to drink that coffee. Right. And I

Jessi: fully support that. I fully support that. As long as it, it chasity remains. Yeah.

Shiloh: Right. Well, and the thing is I'm like, you know, I think we'll be able to really, truly consider it in another year. Yeah. Um, this is not the year, and that's okay.

So if we need to look at puppy pictures to make our little hearts happy, right. But we don't, we don't need that dog right now. And I've, I've been able to test those little kinds of allergies. I've been able to add foods back in. I've been able to appear normal so that when people are like, oh yeah, no, I have allergies too.

I'm like, cool. And I don't go. You have no idea back off. Yeah.

Jessi: Don't even start with me. Right. So healing, healing is a process.

Shiloh: Mm-hmm. But the fact that I'm healthy now is weird. Mm-hmm. It's a really strange feeling and I embrace it because weird is who I am. So love that I embrace the hell Beautiful comes with it.

Yeah. But I forget sometimes how much I've had to work. Mm-hmm. Um, which she told me would happen. Mm-hmm. I was like, no. Okay. Seriously guys, every time Jessie has told me something will happen, and I'm like, no, she's right. So just listen to her. Okay. Oh my gosh. I just like, it's just crazy. Like, yay. So funny.

Jessi: I, one of the questions I had, I realized was, and I feel like we've kind of answered this in our rabbit trail way, but was just mm-hmm. You know, like I said at the beginning, I, one of the biggest feelings I received from you was just this hopelessness, like this just total, not like a ugh, like whiny hopelessness, but just like, I feel like I've tried everything.

Like Right. I, I just, I don't even know anymore. You know, like, is it even like, can you just get me to like a manageable place? Like true health isn't even an option. And no, I

Shiloh: wouldn't even say it was hopelessness. I would just say it was re resignation.

Jessi: Mm. That's a better word. Yeah.

Shiloh: This is where I am. This is my life now.

This is who I am. Accept it. Mm-hmm. I can live a pretty decent life, but could you just get me past this one little part where I can't eat anything but potatoes? Cuz I'd appreciate that. Thanks. Literally, guys, when I first started working with her, all I could eat was potatoes and rice because everything else caused way too much pain.

And I would spend hours on the couch balling up afterwards. So to say I looked model chic was definitely a thing to say. I was desperately unhealthy and malnourished also a thing, not saying ma models are malnourished and unhealthy. I'm saying for me, for my body. Oh.

Jessi: And now like I just, I I I sense so much there.

You've, you've always been joyful. Um, so that's hasn't shifted, you know, in a, in a big way, but more just this underlying like, Oh, this is real. Like I feel like you've just expanded. I think that's a good word of like the world is my oyster now, and I've seen it trickle into other areas where you're like, oh my gosh, I can per like Even the career you're pursuing right now.

Yeah. I just like the fact that this just boomed like right after. Yeah. Like through this whole process, I'm just, Ugh. Like from the allergies to now you're of a narrator, you know, where your voice is not only free. Mm-hmm And you have access to it, but now it's gifted to oth, to authors and to people that are listening and ugh.

I just, I see so much beauty come forward for you. And I'm seriously like, I see such a huge, exciting. Future. And, um, thank you. Yeah. So I'm thrilled

Shiloh: for you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. There's so much more to talk about, but I know our time's getting closed. Yeah. Is there any other questions? Cuz I'm like, we could do like another four hours on this.

I know. I'm sorry. One, we haven't even touched energy

Jessi: come. Yeah, I know. All right. I know. I've, like, I've tiptoed around the fact that like, you're incredibly clairvoyant and that was, that was really cool too, to like work with you and like tune in together to that and use that for your healing as well. Um, but the one question I have, and I ask all my guests this, it's a fun one.

Okay. If you were a plant of any kind, a flower, an herb, whatever it is, a tree, anything living really mm-hmm. That falls into the plant kingdom, what would you be, what captures your essence?

Shiloh: So I'm joke, I'm laughing inside because we, we have a little joke around my family, um, that I am a wasabi plant. Okay.

Oh, wasabi Plants are notoriously difficult to grow and they catch every disease that comes by. Oh my gosh. They also, they also call me, they, yeah, they also call me hot house orchid because I need a very controlled environment to survive and I'm hot,

very hot, spicy hot, spicy hot. Um, but if I were to choose Yeah, choose for yourself, I would Um hmm. Plants and I are contentious relationships. Um, I love them. They're just try to kill me. So I'm like, um, I would probably, I. I would probably describe myself best as a gerra or Gerber daisy. Um, they're my favorite flower, and they are for a reason.

They're so colorful and open and honest, and yet very different. If you're coming across flowers, you're, you're not gonna be, you can see so many different intricate kinds of petals and closed pets and, you know, wavy petals, and they're everywhere on all these flowers and sunflowers are just like, Daisy, the whole family, like Geber.

I'm like, hello. Okay. So yeah, not only are they just spread out and open, they're, they're gonna be the most vibrant colors that are like, look at me. Mm-hmm. And so I would say that's, that's probably best describes me. I

Jessi: totally see that. I love it. I love it. I literally am picturing

Shiloh: those kid costumes around their.

And then the Shiloh face. That's what I'm picturing right now. Like on the stems. It's like the Teletubbies baby in the sun. Yes. Oh my God. Like I'm in the flower. Yep. That's me guys. That's, I see it. That's beautiful. Oh my gosh.

Jessi: Shiloh, thank you so much for your time, for opening up, sharing your journey. And I know this is just like a toe dip in the bucket, but you are, you are such a radiant light, and it's been an honor to witness your journey and when need to cry, stop.

Shiloh: Sh. Thank you. Let's move on. But honestly, to cry, cry

Jessi: like I'm, I'm just, I'm overwhelmed with pride for you and excitement for you and just so grateful. Um, For you to be this walking light for all the other sensitives that are tuning in right now, even the ones that are in your life that have witnessed you.

And, uh, you are a beautiful embodiment of hope and of perseverance and resilience and courage. You're one of the most courageous people I know you've gone through hell and back, and I've literally witnessed it, and your grit is just insane. So carry on. The world is just blooming in front of you and it's, ugh.

It's just exciting to see. Thanks for

Shiloh: coming up. Thank you. Thank you, Jesse, for having me. It's been a pleasure and more ways than you know, but I've told you you're, you are a light in a godsend, so thank you. I'm terrible with this stuff. You made me cry. Yay. Freaking. Hey, man. Aw, we love you. I'm gonna give you a hug and then I gotta go.

Well

Jessi: done, Shiloh. Thank you so much for coming on, sweetheart. Well, well, well done. Thank you. Yeah,

Shiloh: thank you. Seriously, thank you. And I hope everyone out there understands what a gem she is and that in your journey, if you don't have the opportunity to work with her one-on-one, that's okay, because she's telling you what you need every day in her posts, in her stories, in her groups, in her online classes, everything, podcasts, she's already telling you.

And, um, I don't know if she realizes she's giving it away for free, but she is. It's out there. So, um, anything you can glean, you're gonna be fine. And if you don't get the chance to work with her individually, that's okay. You can still be healthy. Mm-hmm. She's not the key to help. You are. Exactly.

Jessi: Oh, well said.

Well said. Yeah. But

Shiloh: thank you. Ooh, that was a hug. People. That was a hug. With an air hug. They're real. They are real.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

Connect with Shiloh

• @shicurls

---

Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi

Episode 39: Curating a Safe Healthy & Beautiful Home as a Natural Sensitive With Ashley Spanovich

Conversation

Episode 39 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jessi Michel Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi: Ashley, it's so great to have you on.Thank you for joining us today.

Ashley: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you.

Jessi: I am just like giddy. Like I woke up this morning overjoyed that we were having this conversation cause I was like, yay. I get to, I get to ask her all the questions. I'm such a little nerd about just environmental building and just home health because it's been such a huge part of my own healing journey and therefore has translated into a lot of my own work with my clients.

Um, but I am, I can't give to it my full attention and my full expertise. And so I just am so grateful for you and the passion that you've poured into your business and your work because it's so needed and it's gonna be needed more and more and more as we know. So, yeah. Uh, before I give away everything that you do, uh, would you tell us a little bit about your story and how you landed in this profession and in this world?

I know it's a fun one. So bring us into who you are and how you landed here.

Ashley: Yes. Oh my gosh. Uh, story goes back long, long time ago. I'd say it started for me in college. Um, and it's really still evolving today. So, uh, it started in college. Um, I studied interior design. I was being, coming in interior designer.

I was really always into sustainable design. And, um, I loved the built environment. I loved design, but at the time, you know, my desire was creating pretty spaces and I loved the idea of how we felt in our spaces and how our environment had the power to make us feel such a special way. And I was always the type of person who moved my furniture in my room like 15 times and like changed it up constantly, was always changing.

 Um, so I was really passionate about interior design. Uh, but after college I moved to Pittsburgh and I began working with my family's development company. Uh, they do, uh, different apartments in Pittsburgh. And so I started helping them doing space planning for that. And I was also doing a lot of the grunt work.

So a lot of actually going in and painting the spaces and Wow. Okay. Really getting my hands dirty because it was a family business and everyone did everything. So, um, at the time, simultaneously I'm doing that. I'm, I'm spraying walls. I'm not wearing a mask. I'm in a ton of construction dust. I'm not putting anything together.

I'm just, yeah, doing what everyone has always done. And it's very, very common in residential design, uh, or residential construction I've learned. But I was experiencing really, really, Odd health symptoms. Um, the biggest one I talk about this a lot, is I really thought I was losing my mind. Um, I went through really, uh, big bouts of depression, um, anxiety, uh, forgetfulness, um, and more so like memory loss.

I wouldn't be able to remember somebody's name who I knew really well, and it was standing right in front of me. Uh, and then it would start to make me panic. And then I'm like, why can't I remember their name? Like, I know this person. Um, and it was really, really scary time. So I started to dive into holistic health.

Um, I found the, um, Institute for Integrative Nutrition and I was like, I'm gonna do the courses and try to learn as much as I can. And that kind of opened me up to. It opened me up to the world of holistic health, but man, it was just the tip of the iceberg.

Jessi: It's the classic entry. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Ashley: Yeah.

Yeah. Um, and I was like, I'm gonna, I'm, you know what, like, I became so passionate about health and trying to figure out my own health, and I wanted to just leave doing interior design. And at this time, I had, was working in another firm, um, and an architecture firm. And, uh, I had thought about giving it up and becoming a health coach.

Um, and so there was this time where I was sort of like health coaching my friends, but that was on the side and just teaching people what I was learning and, um, it, it continued. I, I started to feel a little bit better, but I never quite got to the root cause. Um, I, I always, like, I continued to have these memory issues and.

This like anxiety, um, and just fatigue and skin issues and digestive, oh my gosh, the digestive issues. I almost forget what my symptoms were now because Yeah, it's so far behind me. But it was so it took so long to figure it all out. So then anyways, uh, it wasn't really until I went to Mexico must have picked up some sort of bug that I found a practitioner who had a full script account that could get me this probiotic.

I wanted this specific probiotic I wanted. I love it. And she's like, oh, uh, tell me your symptoms. Like, what have you done? And she's like, I'm happy to just get you the probiotic, but I think you need to do some scans, some testing. And I was like, okay. So I started, we did the full gamut. I got so lucky finding her because mm-hmm.

She just ran all the tests, the right tests, you know, I didn't have to go from doctor to doctor to doctor to figure it out. Amazing. I just found someone and got so lucky that she was able to do the right tests and lead me to finding out, um, uh, really led me and opened up the can of worms of mold, um, heavy metals, um, different viruses and pathogens and all of these different root causes.

But the one that hit me the most was the mold. Um, I had really high levels of mycotoxins in my system. Um, and once I began to. Open up my drainage pathways and detox the mold was when I really noticed the biggest impact on my health. Yeah. And that was the beginning of the end for me. Yeah. I was like, what mold?

You know? Um, because I had lived in very moldy homes in college. My mom would always tell me, oh my gosh, like, this place is so moldy. How are you living here? But I just wanted to live with my friends. I was like, what do you mean, like mold? Like, no big deal. I don't see anything. It looks fine. Mm-hmm. Um, and thinking back on it, it actually, hurts me to think back at some of the places I live because I, I know how mold they work now and, and I can connect my health to my environment.

Um, but yeah, so um, anyways, I decided and kind of, you know, it opened up that can of arms of, okay, well why is there mold and how do I remove it? And. You know, what is the root cause of mold? Like for me, I wanted to understand like, well, how do we really truly prevent it? Um, which led me to, uh, let's see, sort of, it led me to building biology first.

Mm-hmm. And then into building science and, um, working with different contractors and professionals who kind of helped me understand, um, some of the things in our, our building practices today that are lacking. Uh, and so I, you know, after I learned all of this, I really couldn't go back. Um, I would go into my job at my architecture firm every day, and we were putting, you know, vinyl wallpaper, um, in healthcare.

I was working in healthcare, uh, when I actually ended up, that was the firm I was working at before I left to start Awakening Spaces. And I'm putting, you know, vinyl on the floor, vinyl on the walls, and we're not thinking about any of this stuff. And I just. I was like, what? This isn't right. Like, none of this feels right anymore.

Um, and I just totally quit my job and was like, I'm just gonna start talking about what I'm learning and just start putting into practice what I know. Um, even though I know there's still so much to learn. Um, just started doing it and it's, you know, it, it's one of those things with interior design in general, uh, things are changing so fast.

The technology is changing so fast, there's always gonna be so much to learn. Um, but I feel like I have a, a solid understanding now of. Some of the things we need to do and be thinking about, which it's, it's one of the, it is another one of those things that now it's like the more you know, the less you feel, you know?

Yeah. Yes. So, you know, there's more certifications that will be coming for me and more, uh, knowledge that I wanna gain and understand. But what's, uh, been the best is just finding the right team of people to help solve the issues. That there's so many complex issues when it comes to building, um, that, you know, it, it really does take a team of people, uh, if you really wanna be successful because there's so many moving parts.

So that is how I got into it all, and there's a new aspect that I'm currently learning of. I was so motivated by fear in the beginning and ah, yes. Stress. Mm-hmm. And the last part of my health journey, I don't wanna say the last part, but my sort of current thing I'm tackling now is learning to overcome that stress because those things that once kept me safe are now holding me back from my true healing and potential and growth.

And so it's, it's a, a relearning of how to not be afraid of my environment. Um, and to each others that too, because so many people come very, very scared and I don't blame them. But, um, there's a big, a mental and emotional piece that I think goes along with all of that and is a huge component to just being healthy, well-rounded person.

Oh my

Jessi: gosh. Thank you so much for sharing that. It's, I, there's so much we could talk about. I love. I love your journey. I can relate to so much of it. Uh, and you know, just for those that are listening in that maybe this is somewhat of a new topic, like this is, A deep, deep, intense journey that Ashley just described in a short period of time.

Um, I know personally, and if you've listened to many of my episodes, you've, you know, had a glimpse into what it looks like to walk through these kinds of things. Um, and for those of you that are literally in the situation, you know, in the moments that Ashley just described, like, we send you our love, we get it, we know how hard it is.

Um, and I can agree with you, Ashley, like I, I'm in that same place where I am releasing the fear because there's the ignorance, then there's the awakening, then there's the panic, and then there's the intense, like just being, like you said, literally afraid of everything because you can now, it's like the lenses are off and you can see everything crystal clear and you're aware of how screwed up our world is.

And then from there it's like, well, how do you even. Take a step. How do you have any kind of success without being a bazillionaire that can build your own everything. You know, like how do you even do this? And then you come around full circle and to where you're describing, and that's where I'm currently also pursuing of we can't change everything.

We don't have full control. There's a reason we're here at this time in history, in these bodies, in these locations, in these homes. You were meant to walk through those moldy college buildings for a reason. Like Me too. All my clients that have gone to college, I'm like, all right, we're checking for mycotoxins cuz every dorm, every old home, like it's a guarantee.

Um, but that was for a reason. And trusting that journey and also knowing that going forward is not gonna be perfect. And our bodies are brilliant. Our bodies are so brilliant and they're able to evolve. They're able to survive. So my like mantra for the last year has been reduce. It's all about reduction.

How can we reduce the impact so that we can then move forward with joy? Because it's not about perfectionism, which a lot of us is sensitives, those that love aesthetics, those that are just notice those details and experience our bodies in a very specific way. We're the ones that are most impacted by this, you know, but I always talk about how we're the canaries in the coal mine.

Like there's a reason that we notice it so that we can then turn around and save our fellow humankind. And that's what you're doing right now, Ashley, is you're using your ability to tune into your body, to your atmosphere, to your environment, and the beautiful background of that You have that, like, of course you were put into a family that did this kind of work.

You know, like that created that base for you. Um, like obviously this is your destiny, like this is your focus and your passion. And um, I'm just so grateful that you've leaned into it and that you've embraced it. And I can, I can like sense the health and the vibrance and the radiation. The radiation, the word, um, nevermind the radiants.

Yeah, the radiants that's like coming forward from you. So I, I'm so grateful for the wisdom that you're gonna just like shower us with today. Um, and I can tell it's all experiential, which is the most powerful, I think, personally. Um, So thank you first and foremost for sharing all of that. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Um, and so I think the first question that I really I wanna kind of dive into is I wanna start kind of defining things. So for those of you that are sort of new to this idea of the environment potentially being unhealthy and toxic, um, can you define for us maybe what are like the top five things that we should be looking at?

You know, I can list them, but I'll let you go. And, uh, kind of like, I'm thinking about like air building materials, water damage, bacterial mold, lead, asbestos, E m F, you know, like we could go the gamut. But for you, what would you say are like the top five things that we as sensitive human beings should be kind of conscious of?

Um, And like I said, we're gonna talk about these things and they may be kind of fear instilling, but at the end, like we'll be offering some hope and some practical resources. So hang in with us if you're listening. So go ahead Ashley, what would you say are kind of like the top five things that we should be conscious of with, with the home specifically?

Ashley: So air is so important. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of things that impact our air, right? So using air is sort of the overarching thing to be looking at what impacts our air. Um, we have chemicals from the building materials that we use in our homes. Uh, fragrance is a huge one and I see fragrance in a lot of homes of very healthy people who, um, Might not realize the different chemicals that are in the fragrance.

Uh, like GLAD plugins, um, sprays, feris, different things like that, um, that we're breathing in. Um, same with our cleaning products, the things that we're using and almost everything has fragrance in it in addition to other chemicals and antimicrobials and things that might be in the actual product itself.

Hmm. Um, so that's sort of like the chemical component of it. Um, mold and bacteria from wa, water damage and high humidity is also a really big one. So I think another really important component is, um, Before we even go to purify our air, you know, one really big thing to start getting familiar with doing is monitoring and regulating the humidity within your home because it really does need to sit at a sweet spot.

and I like to say between like 30 and 45% relative humidity. give or take a few depending on who you're talking to. but that's a really nice sweet spot. If it's too dry, it can create health issues. If it's too high, it can create health issues. So you really wanna be monitoring, using a hydrometer, um, making sure that you're in that sweet spot.

And if you're not, why not? You know, we have to be our own detective. Mm-hmm. And understanding what's causing our humidity to raise our humidity can raise from sweating, from breathing, from showering, from cooking, um, from using any type of plumbing that we have on our house. I mean, there's a lot of different things that can happen, especially if there's multiple occupants in the house.

Um, so those are really, really big components. Um, and then once you've got your humidity under control and you have been monitoring it and you have an idea of how to regulate it and keep it in that sweet spot, then um, keeping your home clean and purifying your air is gonna be a really great next step.

Um, so. You know, using an air filter, things like that. But really managing our dust is so critical and it's so easy and we can, we can all do that. Um, because our dust is really just a bunch of toxins. It's a lot of toxins built up to actually create a ball of whatever it looks like. A dust. Yeah. Um, dead skin cells, pet bander, dust mites, uh, different pesticides, all types of things, hair.

 So, um, I think that those are, Really big things to be considering. Um, and then the other one, and I don't know where I'm at with the number one through five. You're fine.

Jessi: Was this meant to be a prompt? Yeah. Go with your own prompt.

Ashley: I don't even know where I'm at anymore. But the other really big thing that I look for, um, that I think is missing in a lot of the sustainability movement, which is where I think building biology takes it a step further in terms of healthy homes is, um, the electromagnetic component of things and really looking at the devices that we use in our homes, how often we're using them, um, and how can we really limit our exposure to them?

Um, do we really need all the devices that we have plugged in? And really just raising that awareness of what we're using and what we actually need. And can we limit or reduce. The amount that is plugged into every single wall into our home and our building wiring. And, you know, EMFs goes, um, there's, this is a, this is a whole conversation of its own.

Yeah. But, you know, it's a very big one. And I found for me that it was a really big missing component in my health journey. Mm-hmm. Um, and once I really started taking my, uh, reducing my exposure seriously, I noticed a really big improvement in my health. I noticed a really big improvement in my joints when I, when I started using a, uh, wired keyboard and wired mouse as opposed to a, um, wireless one.

That was a, that was almost like an overnight improvement for me. Wow. Yeah. And so that kind of was what made me believe, you know, I think you kind of think like, oh, okay, like everyone says all this stuff, but I don't really feel it. And so I don't really believe it. Um, but I, I definitely noticed that my, my joint pain went away and my hands, it was sort of like a chronic wrist pain that I had.

I thought I was getting arthritis. I don't know. It's, yeah. What happens when we get older? You know, all these things happen. It's, so, yeah. That's just what people say. Mm-hmm. So, um, I do think that, looking at the technology and devices that you're using in your home and how can you limit your, uh, your usage of all those things is another really, really big important step in creating a healthy environment.

Jessi: So good. Okay, so we're gonna dive into all of these because they all end up like overlapping anyways, right? When you get into it, you're like, oh crap. Like the mold is getting enhanced by the emf. Okay. Okay. Like, it just all creates this environment, right? Where you're like, oh my gosh. So let's actually start with the, the electromagnetic piece, because there's the wifi piece, there's the, you know, dirty electricity piece.

There's all the different devices that lead to all of that. Um, how would someone begin kind of navigating those worlds? You know, when we're thinking about, let's actually start with dirty electricity, because I feel like that's an area not many people are conscious of. I feel like people are starting to be like, oh yeah, my phone radiates and my computer, but what about like, behind the walls, talk about things you can't see, which are, that's the maddening part about all of this, right?

Is that you're like, I'm going crazy because I don't feel well, but I can't. See something, it's not like right in front of my face. I, you know, it's not as easy to identify. So how do you find out if you're home, whether you're, you own it or you're renting or maybe even an office building, how do you know if there's dirty electricity going on?

Ashley: So, dirty electricity is one that I am not, I would say I'm not an expert on dirty electricity. I know a good enough amount of how to prevent it. Yeah. Um, but I don't have the meters to measure it. Uh, there's a lot of building bi, there's some building biologists who are really dialed into this and that is what they do.

And they are gonna measure and test that. Um, but the biggest thing that I, I think is important to understand about dirty electricity is that any device that we have plugged in that has some sort of transform transformer, Hmm. That's going to change the amount of electricity coming from your building, wearing to a device is going to create some sort of dirty electricity because we're now changing the amount of power coming in.

So a couple of things, I'm just e without going too in depth on dirty electricity itself, a couple of things we can do to prevent or kind of limit the amount we might have. Mm-hmm. Um, is unplugging things when they're not in use. Mm. We want to have as little to nothing plugged in when it's not use. Um, So your coffee pot, your teapot, your air fryer, your toaster, your printer, your tv, all these different things are all devices that are plugged in that are these small devices.

If 240 volts of power comes into these devices, it could blow it up. So it has to transform the power to a smaller amount so that it, the device can work properly. So unplugging these things is really gonna be a huge start. Hmm. Um, the other issue we have is we have, um, l e D lights, which are like per code very common now.

Um, they can all create dirty electricity. Dimmer switches can create dirty electricity, but from what I understand, the dimmer switch is really only creating dirty electricity when it's dimming. Mm-hmm. So, Trying to be conscious about that. Um, there's different whole home lighting systems that can kind of bypass that, and that's what we work on when we do, you know, new build con when I do help people with new build consulting, um, you know, if you want that control of the lighting, there's other things we can do to still create that ambience and that mood Nice.

Without having a dimmer switch. So, um, there's dimmer switches, there's l e lightings, there's different lights that have that produce less dirty electricity. And then you also have things that are coming in from outside. Mm-hmm. So you have solar or even your own house home if you have solar panels, because again, it has a transformer.

So it's transforming that electricity and. It could be coming in from your neighbor's house and it could be coming in from a pool pump, and so you could be getting it from outside as well as generating it yourself from inside your home. So there's different filters and things that you can use.

Um, but again, this is a very in-depth topic that

I'm not doing that work every single day. Mm-hmm. Um, and so when, when we are really focused in and someone is, you know, electro hypersensitive, I'll probably call in somebody who has a deeper knowledge of that onto the team. Yeah. To really go deep onto how can we actually make sure that we're not, um, generating and we are filtering any dirty electricity that's coming into the home.

So there's wonderful, definitely things we can do, but it's still a really dirty electricity out of the four different types of MFS that we're really looking at. In building biology is sort of one of the one that's a little more unknown and the research on it is changing rapidly.

Um, and a colleague actually just put out a whole course on it. So I will be hopefully taking that soon and learning more, but it's just, it's a really challenging topic. Yeah. Other ones do we wanna kind of

Jessi: jump into? Yeah. To keep

Ashley: going? Yeah. Um, the other ones are a little easier to decipher and understand, even though sometimes we still can't feel them, we still can't see them.

Um, so one of the biggest ones we'll start, well there's, so there's four different main ones we look at when we're doing an assessment of a home or if, um, we're building new or renovating and, and ways to prevent. And so dirty electricity we already talked about, there's radio frequencies, which is one that is most common to most people.

That's our cell phones, our computers, our tablets, anything with wifi, Bluetooth, um, anything that says smart feature. Um, um, and then we have magnetic fields, which is gonna come from anything that has like a motor in it. Mm. Um, and these fields drop off with distance. Um, and they actually, if a device is turned off, it's not, the field does not remain, then you have electric fields.

And even if the device is turned off, if it's plugged in, it's still emanates an electric field. So, um, with. All of these different things. It's so, it can be so overwhelming. And I like to, so the, the very, kind of going back to my story earlier when the functional practitioner I was working with, I'll never forget, she told me I had to stop using my laptop and my cell phone.

Um, when I first was on Australia, I was like, what are you talking about? Excuse me. I, I just, I just think it's so funny, uh, from there to now, but, so it's a little bit more than that. But essentially she was right. The biggest thing that we can do is to reduce our exposure to the things we use the most.

Right? And I don't know about you, but for me, my cell phone is the thing that is on me the most. Mm-hmm. That I'm using the most. Um, and it really is gonna be making the most impact. If I go out and I get someone to install all these dirty electricity filters and I paint my whole house in shielding paint and I, you know, hardwire everything in and do all these things, but I'm still using this thing constantly and not, yeah, not on airplane mode, and it's just blasting me in the face with, you know, radiation.

Then what is the point? Yeah, so I always tell people, if you're gonna start anywhere, and if you're totally new to this, to really, really monitor your cell phone use, like how much time are you really spending? Um, if you are using it, can you be hardwired in. Um, so that you can actually be, you know, scrolling, but it's hardwired in so that you're, you can turn the, um, Bluetooth and wifi off on it.

Same thing with your computer. Um, if you can get hardwired ethernet into your computer, but then bring up your messages and connect your phone to your computer so that you can do that while you work. And then put your phone on airplanes that in the other room. Um, or just turn it off completely during the day, but you still have connectivity.

Um, that's gonna be a really, really helpful, uh, way to kind of, so stop. Um, just being more conscious about the amount of radiation that you're getting from your cell phone, something that you use and is so close to our bodies every single

Jessi: day. Right. That's such a good tip. And that, that's the thing is cell phones are so, they're so darn convenient and they're that size where you can put it in your pocket, you can put it in your, your day bag, you can bring it with you everywhere it fits in your hand.

And so it just, it sticks to you. And like you said, distance is everything. Um, so that's such good advice. Something you said that caught my attention. When you say wiring in your phone, can you describe that a little bit? Because I don't actually know too many people that do that. So you can you kind of tell us how you do that?

Yeah.

Ashley: So, um, so one way you can easily do it, and I'll just describe my current setup is I have my router here, um, below my desk. Um, it's turned off, so there's a button on it that allows me to turn the router on and off. Um, but it's connected to an ethernet cable. Um, an ethernet cable. Looks like a phone, a phone jack, you know?

Yeah. When you're looking at the house and you see the little port that has the ethernet jack, that's what the ethernet cable looks like. That plugs into the back of your router. And then from there, uh, you can get a little device that has, um, I wanna say it's the lightning jack on one end and then an ethernet port on the other end.

So you can have it, you can have your router here, and I have one summer. Over here, but they don't know where it's at. That's okay. But it's, you can actually, uh, plug that into your phone. You can't make phone calls that way. Um, but you can scroll, you can still receive, you know, iMessage if you have an, an iPhone.

I'm not too familiar on the, um, Android, but yeah. You know, that will allow you to plug it in,

Jessi: so that was a thing too. You can keep your, your router, your modem turned off and it's still receiving the information through the ethernet cord. I didn't realize that. I thought you had to have it on in order for anything to work.

Ashley: No, I mean once it's plugged into the ethernet cable, um, the ethernet port, wherever it's hooked up at. Yeah, it can still, um, you know, cause my router's turned off. Right now I'm hardwired in, my computer is hardwired in. Right. Um, I ever, I try to make, um, I put all my messages and everything on my computer so that I can just have my phone off.

Awesome. Uh, people do complain that they can't ever get ahold of me, so I should probably start there. No, you

Jessi: just train them. You leave, you have a voicemail that says, I don't receive calls if you need to reach me. Text. Like, it's that simple. I know My husband uh, fought me on that for a while. Cause I started getting really intense and I was like, my phone's on airplane mode all day.

And he's like, what if an emergency happens? I'm like, you're, you can figure it out. Like, do you actually need me for. Yeah. It's like, excuse me. No. So I, I backed off that intensity, but, uh, texting, being able to have iMessage is so great. It's so easy. And that is one way then people can, and I feel like for me, when I do that, I actually get the iMessages faster than it comes even on, on my phone.

So it's it's effective. It works. Yeah. Yeah. And

Ashley: when I'm having calls with people, people always drop off their Internet's unstable. Yeah. And in my mind, I'm just like, I don't know why we don't do, do the standard. Like, I never have an issue with connection. Um, and you know, Same thing with like our TVs too.

We're gonna get all those hardwired in as well because Yeah. Sometimes. Well, and I will admit, I don't, I do the best I can. Yeah. And this is what I would tell anyone to do. You know, just because I do this work doesn't mean I never use my phone. Doesn't mean I never use wifi Right. At five or 6:00 PM usually, or WiFi's off.

Cause I'm sitting right next to my router. Mm-hmm. Um, and whenever I am working, my partner knows like it's off. Like I'm not turning it on cause I'm right next to it. Yeah. Um, but you know, afterwards we turn on the wifi and we put Netflix on or something at night. Yeah. You know, once in a while. So it's like, you know, to get that hardwired in would take it in ne one step further and would be better.

But we don't currently have that. And that's just, you know, you just have to do the best that you can.

Jessi: That's a perfect thing. I know, I was gonna ask cuz there's like, there's always the difference between when it comes to a home, when you're renting a home, when you own a home, when you're building a new home.

Like those are like the three things. And like when you're renting, you don't have as much control. So it's, it's a really just about reduction and, you know, what can you do when you own a home? There's a bit more, but sometimes it's like the home has been established. Like it's tough to go in and like wire the entire house.

Like I, I, I've looked into that. Yeah. Um, it's a lot of work. I mean, if you're doing a big renovation on the home and you're opening up walls and stuff like that, it's like an, it's an easy add-on. But if you're not doing that, it's a big project, but a new construction, which is the dream for any sensitive person, it's like, yeah,

Ashley: yes, God give

Jessi: me the ability to build a home exactly the way I'd want it with all of the health and everything.

 Uh, like that's where you go in, right? And you do that extra step of like wiring literally everything. Like we've, I think my husband and I talked about this cuz we've. We've looked at all the options, but like in every room, having a jack where you can, so if you have your phones, it's like everywhere you go you can plug your phone into the ethernet and be able to use it.

So it's still convenient. Um, and then you're only on wifi when you're outside of the home, which is like, never for me, cuz I'm an introvert, so. Exactly. But that's, that's such, you know, it's, it's that progression. Right. And speaking about health, like I always describe this with clients when it comes to any sort of change, whether it's food or supplements or working out, or even just mindset.

Like you take baby steps and you do what is available and what's in your capacity. Like, you don't try to go for gold, you know, when you're in the bronze pool, like you just, you gently work up and there's seasons too, like depending on where you are. Like, are you a new mama? You know, like, focus on your kiddo.

You know, just don't. Dear God, don't put your cell phone near their head. You know, like, don't have your cell phone on you with the baby. But other than that, relax, you know, like there's like, wouldn't you say coming to that full circle moment of the more stressed we are, the more we're in that state of, I call it the alarm mode, but the fight or flight, you know, in that sympathetic mode.

The more all of these toxins, whether it's you know, radiation or molds or endotoxins from bacteria, or you name it, are gonna affect us because we're more vulnerable when we're in that state. We're not able to, to process it. And cuz really toxicity is all about clearance, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that was a big moment for me.

I didn't realize radiation was a toxin. I just thought it was like, oh, it's like something that. I didn't really get it. It wasn't until someone explained to me that the reason that it's a problem is that when it enters your body, it can't get out. Like the body can't translate it. And so it's stuck in your being and it becomes a toxin and it just goes nuts on your cells.

So usually general terminology, uh, and so if you're relaxed, if you're calm, it's actually able to clear a little bit more effectively. And so it's, that's why the calm, happy people like ignorance sometimes is bliss because you're not stressed about it. But if you're like me and you found out about 5G and you're driving past towers and every time you're flinching and freaking out and your entire body's contracted, I'm getting impacted more than the person that doesn't even know what 5G is, doesn't even know what that tower is, you know?

So it is a balance, right, of being able to like have the knowledge but not let it take over.

Ashley: Oh man. And I just, I know it, it really is. And I will tell you it has it there. I've been in a place in my life where it took over. Yeah. I mean, I was like, we have to move. Oh my gosh, we, we gotta get outta here.

Like it's, it's pan. You get in a full panic mode and it's just like, at that point, nothing will ever be perfect. And this is what I tell people all the time, we could be designing and putting together the most perfect, quintessential perfect, did everything right home. But if you don't feel safe in your body, you're never gonna feel safe in your home.

Jessi: Right. You'll always find something. Mm-hmm.

Ashley: And, um, I'm working on trying to figure out how to. Uh, create some new offerings around this for people who are looking for new homes. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I do a little bit of work where I help people who are trying to find healthy home and sort of find, um, the good bones to start with something nice.

Yeah. Um, but, uh, that process is really overwhelming and a lot of people are in big time fear state at that point in their journey, and so, uh, there will be some things coming, I think, where we, we kind of mix that emotional component, um, that energetic component into, into finding, um, helping people because you'll just, you'll never feel safe if you don't feel safe in your body first.

Jessi: Yeah. I can vouch for that. We've, this is the home I'm in right now. We just moved into, and it's our fourth in two years. Because of having to leave out of, first it was asbestos and molds, and then we bought a home and I learned so much. We bought a, an old home and I thought I had done well, but it had a flat roof.

And now I know to never do anything with the flat roof, but there was a lot of unseen water damage in the roof, um, in other areas. Uh, and I got super sick. So we left and then moved into another place that ended up having four different leaks within a matter of months, like, and so we moved again. So I like, I know that journey of just feeling un unsafe, feeling unsettled.

Um, and there's so much around that too, right? It's not just you, it's like your relationships. It's, uh, how, how that impacts your work and your family and, and all sorts of things. Because stability is so key to safety a lot of times, and especially for us that are sensitive, like we're already overwhelmed naturally, easily.

Yeah. So to constantly have your environment changing, like I can say oftentimes, you know, from a health practitioner perspective, we always tell our clients, move, get out. Mm-hmm. Um, but I would say that's not always true, like from a realistic perspective of sometimes it's not possible. So let's talk about that a little bit.

When someone is in an environment, maybe they're renting or they just bought a home and there's like, Like no budget for shifting. Right. That's usually what happens. They're like, oh crap, like we just squeaked into this home and now we're finding that we need to do like 50 grand worth of like remediation or, um, all the things, you know?

Mm-hmm. What are some things that people can do? Um, let's talk about water damages. We've talked about, uh, you know, radiation in general, but like if they find out their home has molds and, um, some bacteria growth as well, like endotoxins and mycotoxins, how do they find a balance between panicking and leaving and perhaps making that home viable?

Hmm. And I know that's probably individual, but Yeah. Do you have some tips for someone that's like, I can't get outta here, but I understand that this is impacting my health. Are there some things that I could do to kind of Yeah. Reduce the impact for myself and potentially a family? Yeah,

Ashley: I think some of the biggest things is really well, it goes a couple of ways.

So keeping your home as clean as possible. Hmm. And maybe you're not the one doing that cleaning, which is gonna be really hard if someone doesn't have a budget. Hmm. Um, because mold spores are gonna live in our dust, um, purifying our air, making sure it's really, really clean. And if, again, if you don't have a budget, looking at HEPA filters, tape to box, uh, regular box fans.

Mm-hmm. Um, but again, this is also gonna be circulating dusts, picking things up and moving things through the air. Um, really getting outside as much as possible. I think it really depends on what the problem is. Right. Um, I wanna just jump back just right before that though, because. For anybody who is looking to buy a new home.

Mm. I always say, whatever your budget is for that home, take 50 K off. Yeah. And I'm dead. And I'm dead serious. Yeah. Because there's gonna be something you're gonna have to fix. And I, I set that expectation, uh, very early because if it's not something you have to fix now, it's maybe something you're gonna have to fix later.

So hard. Um, and I don't think enough times we are setting aside that money to know that we have to have money for unforeseen events. I know. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't think about that. I just said, well, this is how much I can pay. Uh, this is what I can afford for our mortgage, so this is what my, and this is what I can get approved for.

So this is, this is my budget. Um, but I think that I. and I tell this to everyone I work with who's looking for a new home, just be prepared because there's always gonna be something if you have, if you're not the one putting it together, there's likely going to be something. So I really think that anyone who's listening to this and wants to pursue finding a healthier home or wants, um, or maybe you're in the midst of it and you're looking to buy a home, just know that with anything out there, and this is not meant to scare, but just know that there's always gonna be improvements that need to be made in order to bring it up to health, whether it's ventilation, um, which I find is a really big one, especially in kitchens.

Um, the kitchen ventilation oftentimes isn't even working or doesn't go outside, or the bathroom ventilation goes up into the attic. And so now we're pulling moisture into the attic. It's not actually going into the, out of the, uh, out of the home. Oh gosh. Um, there's, you know, there's gonna be something. So just.

Don't stress about it, but just be prepared. Just know, okay, I've got this money set aside. We're gonna, um, have this, we're, we're gonna, we know we're gonna make improvements. This is so much easier said than done in today's market, by the way.

Jessi: Uh, but you know what, having that knowledge though is so big.

Like, I, you and I have had to learn that the hard way. You know, like I, I literally bought a home by the skin of my teeth and then was like, oh crap. Like I need to, we threw 10 grand basically into testing the home and then found out we needed to do like 80 grand worth of remediation if we wanted to do it properly.

Um, plus. Renovating because you just kind of had to alongside it. And if I had known that coming in, I probably wouldn't have bought this home. I would've gone another route, you know? But at the same time, like I learned so much from this experience, I will never forget. Yeah. And the next home that we buy is gonna be so much better because of it.

So whether you learn through, uh, like us through experience or you learn from this podcast, um, you know you're gonna win. It's, and I think what's on the flip side, yes. It's like frustrating and we'll all go through that, that anger of like, why is our society like this? Why are homes built like this? Why don't people care anymore?

You know, why are homes not breathable and so toxic and built so slap, sticky, you know, with no care for the health of the, the homeowner. Um, it's all about, yeah, just costs and speed now, but. On the flip side of that, once you know, you know, and you can look for it. And if you're expecting it and choose not to be negative about it, it's like any home then is kind of like an opportunity.

Um, and I think it's just coming out of that mindset of like, my home will automatically be safe. That kind of expectation is the problem because if we have that and we stay with in that mindset, we're always gonna be frustrated. But if we just see that, oh, it's just the current environment we're in every building, every home has a problem.

So really it just becomes, uh, a game. Of find the problem. Yes. Yeah. And how many problems? Oh, cool. This one only has one problem, and I'm expecting that it'll probably be two that I didn't know about. So, okay. We're good, you know? Mm-hmm. This home has 20 problems. We're not going there, you know? Yes. So it's just, it can become more playful, can become more hopeful.

And I think the goal is having someone like you on, on your team to be able to be that extra, those extra set of eyes and also the wisdom. Like even you talking about like, I'm not an expert in dirty electricity. Yeah. But you just dumped a bunch of knowledge on us that we don't know. And you have direct contacts to people that do.

Right. Whereas the average home buyer has no idea about any of this stuff, will find out later when they're sick or their kid got cancer, or you know, something horrific, right? Because they just didn't know and. Which is devastating and no one wants to be in that situation. But, um, once you gain the knowledge, you know, there are actions that can be taken and it can be a positive experience.

You know, like I'm so grateful for what I went through, even though I would never wanna do it again. And that's why I'm talking about this. Like, I don't want anyone to have to go through what I went through. Yeah. But at the same time, I have loads of knowledge now and the future is brighter because of it.

Right. And you also, I think, come to realize your values. So a little rabbit trail for us, like aesthetics are so important to us as sensitives. Like we just, mm. And so many of my client, well all my clients are sensitives now, like, I think the battle comes down to like, I just purchased a home, or I just rented a new home or whatever.

I wanna spend my budget on interior design. I wanna buy that beautiful, like six penny sofa and I wanna like have my, my gorgeous curtains and that beautiful rug. And like all these things just create that ambiance cuz that's what gives us life. Mm-hmm. And so when we find out we have to spend all of that money on like mold remediation, it's so soul crushing, right?

Mm-hmm. And so it's tough. It's tough, but I think at the end of the day, like recognizing that our health has to come first. Mm-hmm. Because your home can be gorgeous, but it can make you so sick and then you're not able to even enjoy that. You know? So you've found this beautiful marriage of the two of like, how can we do both?

That's what I see you as. Like, how can we do both? And that's the dream. So, oh,

Ashley: I just, there's just, I also just wish that the world of non-toxic was. Prettier sometimes. Oh my

Jessi: gosh.

Ashley: Yeah.

Jessi: Yes. Yeah. We'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah.

Ashley: Yeah. But I wanted to jump back to what you were saying about um, like as we're looking at homes, I think I, you know, you can go out and find a lot of checklists of, these are the things you can't have in your home if you're looking for a new home.

Right. Uhuh, I'm sorry. No, it's unrealistic. Like they don't, you can't, like, I, that is not gonna work for people. I have put together a list and it's more of, okay, I want you to print this out at each home that you look at, put the address and let's, let's just observe. Yeah. We are just observers. I want you to use this as an, as a place to be your own detective.

To observe the home, to notice what it has and what it doesn't have and where what you're finding, and I'm teaching you how to use the tools to do this yourself before you bring in, you know, so that you can have, you can narrow things down on your own before you bring in a qualified inspector. Um, but, you know, and then it's like, okay, well then let's all let, let's look together at these five properties and let's weigh the pros and cons together.

Mm-hmm. And that's where I will help you really say, okay, well, I don't know. You know, you have, there's like absolutely no ventilation in this home. This is a huge mechanical cost. Like this is gonna cost you 30 k or whatever. Versus, you know, maybe you have, um, some issue with the bathroom or something. I don't know.

You know, there's just different things where you're gonna weigh, like, do you have a structural issue and a mechanical issue versus like there's, you know, uh, there was a leak under the sink, right? There's different levels, I think of, um, weighing those pros and cons for people and so that they can then say, okay, well do I have the money to, um, invest in.

This problem. Mm-hmm. Because there's gonna be something with every home, and it's about like, kind of coming up with a risk assessment at that point, because yeah, you can't find a house that just doesn't have, you know, uh, not a flat roof and Yeah. Uh, all these different things that are just crazy. Um, and then it becomes really stressful and then people feel really upset that they can't, they're, they're not finding anything.

And yeah. Um, it's a really challenging process. It's, that's probably the hardest. Mm-hmm. Um, helping people find new homes and just the vetting process of that. Um mm-hmm. Whereas it becomes a lot easier when you can just do everything you want with a

Jessi: home. Oh, custom homes are the best. Yeah. And, and I think, you know, it's, like I said, it's the dream for like every sensitive to have the opportunity to do that.

And, um, you know, from the ground up, choosing beautiful wood and knowing that it's, you know, Yeah, just there's so, I mean, there's so many things, right, of like, I mean, when we were thinking about basically doing that, we found out that we would have to basically tear our house down because it was just so bad.

Oh my gosh. Um, so, you know, we chose to go a different route that was more viable, but it's, I've, you know, looked into that down to even, like when you're building a home, like the season that you're building it in, are you building it in a wet season? Like, You don't want any of that? What? Like there's so many details that even building custom home, although it's ideal, it's a really gnarly process if you're really going for it.

Uh, and my husband and I have always joked like, that would be such a rad job to be like, An all natural builder where you just like everything like you do at old school, you know, I'm sure you've looked at people that have done that, you know, using the hay and using the plaster and really going for it.

Um, but doing it in a way that's beautiful, that's not just like, oh, okay, yeah, it's healthy, but I wouldn't wanna live there. You know? Yeah. It's really not that attractive. Uh, but building, like building homes like they used to be built where they can breathe and so that humidity you talked about is just naturally regulated by the walls and there's, it's cool in the summer and warm in the winter and um, you know, there's just a home microbiome that is balanced and mm-hmm.

So if there is mold, it's not toxic. Black mold from water damage, it's natural healthy that your body can, your immune system can be in relationship with. And you know, there's so many different things that are so different now in our modern world than like, back in the day I used to always think. Why am I so sensitive to mold?

Like I'm, my biggest heritage is French. I'm like French, eat mold. Like what is going on? Like my jeans should be able to handle this. They lived in castles, covered in mold, like what is going on? And when I learned that it's quite different, like I almost consider it like healthy natural mold spores.

Mm-hmm. You could obviously have an allergy to those, you know, but, um, mycotoxins are those toxins that are released by the mold, which we've talked about in other episodes, but like, that's different like water damage from modern buildings that create this, these kind of newer strains of mold that are so gnarly.

Like that's what we're talking about. Right. It's, yeah. And I think people. When there is that lack of knowledge, and honestly, this includes most of the mold industry, by the way, for those that are listening, most remediators have no concept of the true toxicity of molds. They're not properly trained, it's not putting them down, but they're just not properly trained.

And so, um, that knowledge out of understanding Okay. Healthy mold that I see on like, the outside that's like, we, like aesthetically like, oh, it's so pretty. It's a multi, you know, stonewall versus like mold in your wall from water damage is like two very different worlds. So there's so much to understanding the nuances of all of it, but I think at the end of the day, understanding that your health needs to come first, even above aesthetics.

Um, yeah. But at the same time, we don't wanna go the other extreme where we're living in this barren wasteland. Yeah. Because it's, it's so, um, purified. It's so, Clinical almost in a way where like all of the, the natural life has been eradicated. Like we don't want that either. It's a balance, right? Of finding, yeah, finding that, uh, like for example, this new space that I'm in, that we moved into, I happen to know that there's a little bit of water damage in my bathroom, like a little leak out into the wall.

I can see the bulge. I know it's there. We sealed it up. We have beautiful air filters going on, but it's the only thing in this whole space, as opposed to the previous home I was in that had multiple leaks, I could go on for hours about everything that was going on in that house. And so for me, it's like I've come to that place of knowing that every home I move into will have something and I'm renting, so we're not gonna do anything about it.

But if I did own the home, I'd probably address it, but it's one little thing and my immune system can handle that. Yeah. Um, and so it's just believing in the, the strength of our body. Um, but like what you went through, right? Years of, like, you didn't arrive at that point of losing, you know, memory and all of that from one exposure.

It was from numerous exposures over the years. So I think people don't understand that, that it's like when I work with people and help them clear mycotoxins and mold, they've, we track back and they've been exposed probably from childhood. So it's just the, the addition of layer upon layer upon layer that brings them to that point of sickness.

So once you clear your body and you're healthy, your body can handle the occasional exposure, even if it is regular, you know? So I think that's important to understand too, right? Yeah. you, uh, Go into an office or someone else's home and you know, you're like, oh dear, I can smell this.

Ashley: Yeah. It's, it's challenging because I don't, I don't feel the way that I used to feel, and I think that is where I built up the nervous system capacity. Mm. Um, that I think has really, really helped feeling safe, knowing my body can handle, knowing that just because I'm being exposed doesn't mean my body can't get rid of it.

Um, I think, but there are, you know, so even when I smell it, I'll see it. I'll, I usually say something cause I'm like, oh, that, that's small. No, you can't hide that. Yeah. Yeah. But, I don't usually feel that bad anymore. On occasion, I'll be somewhere where I'm like, I can't, I, I can't be here. Um, I was staying with a friend, uh, this summer who, uh, bought a house, uh, a humid climate.

Hmm. They were so excited about it. Um, I, I couldn't, I couldn't stay there. I had to go, I had to go get a hotel. Um, so there's situations like that where I know I need to leave, um, because I just can't, I can't fathom like spending three nights, but if I know I'm gonna be eating somewhere and I'm not gonna be there for long, I just let myself know, like, Hey, we're not gonna be here for that long.

Like the beauty about our homes, for the most part is that we do have the ability to control. Our own environment. We have the ability to control the food we eat and what we consume, um, and how we take care of our bodies, but we can't control everything else that's outside of our, our own home, right?

So I try to just know that I'm doing the best that I can in my own home, and then when I'm outside, it's okay. Because it happens, happens. Yeah. It happens. You there, you have to just come to some acceptance with that, I think. Mm-hmm. And it can be really, really hard and it can take a really long time to get to that place and Yeah.

You know, and depending on what kind of health issues you have, you know, I had never been del uh, diagnosed with mass cell activation or, um, you know, I, I don't have the H l a Dr. Gene. You know, there's things that make it more challenging for people. And so my experience is totally different and everyone's experience is gonna be totally different.

if you're not necessarily experiencing symptoms now, it's just always a good idea to be aware of your environment in a way so that you don't end up experiencing those symptoms down the road because it can happen to anyone, whether you have a predisposition or not. Mm-hmm.

So, um, It's, it's such a delicate dance and it, everything plays a role. The food that we're eating, um, our environment, our nervous system, and our emotional health and, and taking care of our trauma and looking at maybe what's keeping us sick. Yeah. Um, I had learned from, mind body spirit release, which is an emotional technique to help you release trauma.

that I wanted to be sick because I had a deep inherited trauma, that no one would ever love me for who I am, because, and that maybe being sick was a way for me to feel that people loved me, you know? And it's not something that I was conscious about, but wow. When I heard that, I thought, wow. And then you kind of look at your childhood and you look at the things in your life and you start to really dig into those shadow pieces and, what could be holding you back from actually truly wanting to heal and believing you can heal.

And so there, there's a huge component to that as well. And so our environment is a huge piece. We have to avoid those toxins for sure, but we also have to, once we are sick and, um, are experiencing symptoms and we feel like we can't figure out what's going on, we also have to try to dig a little bit deeper than just the symptoms themselves and what could be holding us back.

So, boom.

Jessi: Yeah, exactly. Thank you for completing that circle. Mm-hmm. That's holistic healing, right? It's not just one piece. We're such layered beings. And you can eat the perfect food for your body. You can have the perfect supplements. Know exactly how to. Sauna properly and you know, do all the clearing acts, um, but be holding on to deep wounds of grief or rejection or abandonment, and that is the block.

That will hold those toxins in, right? Mm-hmm. The body, we as beings, can block and hold onto things through so many different means. Mm-hmm. So it is so important to look at all the layers and to understand that, that we are complex and beautiful in that way. Um, but yeah, just like when we're looking at the home, we're talking about all the different layers of a home, right?

From the wood that it's built with to the air quality, to the electricity, to the devices we place in the home to the furniture we choose. The wall decor, the paint. Uh, we're the same way. You know, we are spiritual, physical, mental, emotional, and we have to look at all those layers as we choose to heal too.

And, um, our. Our perspective on the world is, is so shaped by our subconscious, right? What is it? 90. It keeps increasing. Every time I read, I'm like, now we're at like, 95% of who we are is subconscious. I'm like, oh my gosh. Wow. Wow. It's just, it's huge. And so there's so much that we're doing that we're not even conscious, we're not aware, we're not presently aware of, you know, and, uh, it's so important for us to step into that space and understand that we're not just carrying our experiences, we're carrying generations of experiences, right?

Mm-hmm. We've got generational trauma. We've got, um, what we experienced in the womb as newborns, you know, and those first eight years are so impactful and that they made you who you are today. So it's. It's so important to think about all those things, even as we talk about, you know, air filters and Yeah.

Plugging in your phone and stuff like that. It's all on the same level. It really is. Yeah. It really is. So it's just wherever you are in your season, you know, whatever's coming forward, lean into that. Like if you're in a season right now of leaning into the energetic and the spiritual realm, like, it may not be time to look at your home, but if this is resonating what we're talking about, you know, um, and maybe you've been living in this for a long time.

Don't forget about the spiritual, like you shared. Don't forget about the energetic, don't forget about those, uh, more ethereal aspects as well. The physical Yeah. And the, the invisible are all wrapped up together. Mm-hmm. Which is I think, oh my gosh. Which interesting about like electro radiation and even mycotoxins and endotoxins.

Since we can't see those things, they almost have a spiritual. Like element to them, don't you think? Mm-hmm. Yes. Because it's so much of a belief factor. Like people are like, I don't believe in that. I don't believe that. That's true. And you're like, I'm not trying to like convince you of a religion here, but at the same time it's like, it kind of is on the same plane because it is invisible to the naked eye, you know?

Oh my

Ashley: gosh, yes. You're so right. It's like, oh, oh my gosh. Yeah, because it's like at the, especially when you're finding out about this, it's like you're trying to convince people to believe Yeah. Uhhuh and it, it really is. Wow. Yeah. I never really thought of it that way, but you're totally right. Oh my gosh.

Jessi: Oh, it's, it's tricky. Yeah. The work you do is challenging because you are. Yeah, you're really working almost within the spiritual realms in that way. So I'm so grateful for all that you do. I know I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. Um, as far as like those that are listening specifics, like, I cannot recommend Ashley's Instagram more, like get plugged in with her because I feel like every day you're giving helpful resources, like what air filter should you use?

You have all these incredible tips of how to clean, of how to, you know, basically do all the things that you're embodying and representing. So, I know we didn't get into too many of the nitty gritty, but I think that's because it's already there. Like it's already accessible. So, um, you know, we're going deeper on this episode, but if you're kind of like, Hey, I want, like those tools, they're there on your Instagram.

So tell us a little bit more about how people can connect with you and how they can learn from you and ideally work with you too. Yeah,

Ashley: so Instagram, obviously I share all types of random stuff, not necessarily all pertaining to how you work with me specifically, but just living a healthy lifestyle. I like to share that.

And I think because I'm in such a season of the spirituality and um, trying to open up and reconnect and, and um, open up some of those blocks that I've been having on my own healing journey, you're gonna be getting a lot more of that. Um, which I think was why Awakening Spaces was born in originally, cause I was always drawn to that side of things.

Um, So, yeah, Instagram. I have a newsletter that goes out once a month called The Monthly Awaken, where we really go deep into, uh, either questions someone has asked or just, uh, really I try to make it really, really value packed. So if that's something you're interested in, you can sign up using the link in my bio on the Instagram.

Um, and then, yeah, if I work with people in a few different ways, I do renovation consulting and new build consulting. Um, so depending on where you are in your journey, we look at how you can build back your home or build your home from the ground up. Um, looking at everything from the site that you're, that you're building on, on the orientation of your home, um, oh my gosh, it is such a deep dive into all things healthy home.

And there's just so many factors that create a healthy environment. So, uh, we support you through all five phases of design, um, until you walk into your door. And, um, I'm working on a, a product right now called the Awakened Homeowner, which is gonna be sort of for anyone who wants to just have a healthy home no matter where you are in your journey.

It's gonna be a combination of how to videos, it's checklists, it's, you know, why uh, healthy homes are important and how to use the different tools. And that's gonna be coming out, um, hopefully in the next couple of months. So you'll be able to search something in a search engine and find the video that you're looking for.

So this will be a really easy way to, um, just keep your home healthy, um, learn how to prevent things in your home. Just become an awakened homeowner. So if you're interested in connecting, um, always feel free to reach out on Instagram and chat. I love making new friends there, so,

Jessi: yeah. Uh, that's so needed, Ashley.

Like, amazing. I'm so excited. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna be using that. I'm gonna send all of my clients because that's, it's so needed and it's such an overwhelming space. So to have your wisdom, to have you as a guide is gonna be so huge. Oh my gosh. Thank you for creating that. I can only imagine how much work is going into this project.

Ashley: Oh, it's, it, it's been a journey, but it's been fun. It was supposed to come out last year, but I, I lost my father and it tur derailed everything and it is totally okay because it's happening in divine timing. So

Jessi: yeah. That's always how it works. Mm-hmm. It's always how it works. Hmm. Yeah. And there's always something that you need to experience sometimes before you put something out.

Yeah. So,

Ashley: yeah, definitely.

Jessi: I have one final question for you that I ask all of my guests, and it's kinda off the wall, but it's just fun. Okay. So if you were a plant, any kind of natural element, like it can be a tree, a flower, an herb, what would capture your essence? What would you be? Oh,

Ashley: um, I would probably be a San Pedro cactus.

Ooh. I love them. They're resilience. They're, you know, they're just, they're simple, but they're beautiful. I just love them.

Jessi: I love that San Pedro Cactus beautiful. It's like, do you know what that looks like? I have a vision in my mind, but I'm questioning if it's accurate. It's just like your

Ashley: standard cactus that is just like one cactus has four ridges on the side.

It's just, I love it. I love everything desert.

Jessi: That's good. That's actually really good for like a healthy home. Dry,

Ashley: dry

Jessi: climate. Very dry climate. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love that. That's perfect. I can see that even in like your design behind you in your home, like those colors and everything. I'm like, okay.

Yeah. I can see the, the sandy neutrals and the, the pop of green and that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's, I love it. That's my favorite. Well, Ashley, thank you for bringing beauty back into non-toxic living. Like, honestly, it's been so needed. My little soul has been withering away in those spaces, so thank you.

When I found you, I was like, oh, praise God. Like this is exactly what's needed. Like finally someone that's doing it well, like anyone that's listening, you go to your website and you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, she knows she's got it. Like this is, so this makes me so happy. Even just like scroll through your website cuz it's just so beautiful and clean.

And Thank you. And yours too.

Ashley: I actually love it.

Jessi: Oh, thank you. Yeah. You know, send to the souls, just enjoying each other's

Ashley: stuff. Love it.

Jessi: Love it. Oh my gosh, Ashley. Well is there any final thing that you would like to leave our listeners with, um, as we close out here today? Ah,

Ashley: just that there's so many facets to our health, but.

We can't forget to just what life is all about, which is joy and happiness, and life is meant to be lived. So if you're on the health journey and you feel like you're just giving things up and going through the struggle, just know that it's just the season that you're in to build capacity in your body, to get you back to that joy that you are meant to have and you deserve.

And it's all gonna be okay, and it really is.

Jessi: So. Amen. It'll come. It'll come. It'll come back. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's, that's a beautiful reminder. Oh my gosh. Thank you. Yeah. Aw, Ashley, it's been a joy. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah. Thank

Ashley: you so much for having this platform for us to chat about this.

Jessi: wonderful. Of course. My pleasure.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

Connect with Ashley Spanovich

• @awakeningspaces

• Awakeningspaces.com

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Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi

Episode 38: A Vulnerable Heart Share on Hermitness & Relationships

Conversation

Episode 38 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jessi Michel Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi Michel Agadoni: Hello, my natural sensitive family. Welcome back to the podcast. Today I am coming to you from my bedroom. It's been a while since I've recorded just kind of in the moment, and I wanted to follow my intuition on this one. This is something that this topic has come up many times for me, especially over the last five years, and.

I really wanna speak into it because I haven't heard anyone else do it. And that to me means that there needs to be more voices discussing this. So this is an episode that is truly a. An open-ended, thoughtful consideration, and maybe even love letter to my fellow hermit natural sensitives as natural sensitives.

We tend to just in general, Enjoy a more quieter life with less, uh, relationships and just people in general in it. Not always. Some of us are naturally extroverted. Uh, but I would say kind of on the whole there is less, uh, desire for. Constant interaction and relationship maintenance, uh, with natural sensitives than there is for those that are on the lower end of the sensitivity spectrum simply because we get, uh, easily filled up.

It's a nice way to say it. We don't need quite as much to fill our cup, and so just good, deep, solid. Powerful interaction for an hour or two will like satisfy us for a while. Uh, whereas someone that is more extroverted and or on top of that less sensitive, um, not only wants more but can handle more, uh, handle more interaction, handle more engagement, handle more information, uh, so.

This is actually an episode for those of us that are within even potentially a minority, uh, in the natural sensitivity family. And I, for a while assumed this was how all natural sensitives were, but I've come to realize that nope, even with within this grouping or this, this, uh, Community. I am rare, so I know that there has to be others out there that are similar.

I also feel like it's important for me to share this because I am putting myself out here as an example of a natural sensitive, and I wanna make sure that. Anyone that's listening that is a natural sensitive, knows that you don't have to look exactly like me. In fact, you're not supposed to. You are your own unique expression of natural sensitivity.

And so you may feel completely different about this topic than I'm about to dive into, and that doesn't mean that you're not a natural sense. That doesn't mean that you are unhealthy. That doesn't mean that I'm unhealthy. It doesn't mean that anything's wrong. It just means that we're different and we're wired a little bit uniquely.

And that's beautiful because we're meant to bring different things. We're meant to play different parts and different roles in this lifetime. So I just wanted to kind of say that at the beginning. Um, but I just need to share about this because I find that it's either. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's that a lot of people just don't realize that this is how they are and they don't feel permission to live in alignment with it.

Or if it's just that it is quite rare. And I am a bit of a, an oddball, and I don't mean that in a negative way, but just like, um, I, I'm not the usual so. Let me just dive in here. I think the best way to begin this conversation is the topic of friendship. Uh, I adore people. I love observing people. I love getting to know people.

I love, uh, thinking about people, praying for people, supporting people. Uh, my biggest, I think, Passion is really seeing people heal, seeing people recover, seeing people joyful, and to be that bearer of joy and hope for people. So I, I say that because to me, I think a lot of times when someone has more hermit like behavior, there is an assumption that they hate people or that they're injured.

And that there's a lot of trauma and that they just need to heal past that, and then they'll be quote unquote normal again, and I'm sure there's going to be a hoard of therapists and psychiatrists and all sorts of people that will disagree with me on this, and that's okay. I'm just sharing my personal experience and opinion, which of course, I absolutely accept could be flawed, but this is where I am in my life and this is my current perspective.

Uh, so I'm gonna lean into it just in case anyone else out there is feeling similarly. And I give myself permission to change my mind as well. I may think differently about it in a year. So, uh, But I want to propose that it is quite possible to be relatively healthy, cuz we're all on the journey towards ultimate health, right?

I don't claim perfection, but relatively healthy and not need much. Engagement. Let me dive into this even more. So, as many of you know, I've grown up in a conservative Christian environment, and within that culture there's a lot of discussion about community and this absolute requirement of being in community and that that's really like what healthy humanity looks like is community.

And community in that context, at least to me, seems to be defined as something that involves a lot of in-person engagement over the phone engagement, just a lot of continual interaction. And if there is a lack of that, then it's a sign of selfishness, unhealth, disconnection. Potentially even lack of godliness and maybe even this, I feel like people go here quick now.

A sign of unhealthy seclusion that could be representation of like a mental disorder of some kind. And part probably in that same category, like massive trauma where they, I'm trying to think of the. Expert term for this, but I know there's many different attachment styles, and I'm totally blanking on this right now, which probably means, I'm not meant to remember it, but there's just different kinds of attachment styles.

And so I think a lot of people go into like, oh, you're this kind of attachment or that kind of attachment. And I think there's a place for that. And I think it's beautiful to study that, and I'm always fascinated by those kinds of things, but I think sometimes we get so obsessed with. Pinpointing and labeling people in order to understand them so that we ourselves can feel better about ourselves if we're different than the other person, that we forget that there can just be unique attributes of people that just because someone's different doesn't always mean that there's something wrong with them.

Right. So I think that's kind of my general take away. But as I was saying, just this community I grew up in, it was very anti. Hermit like behavior or lifestyle. And I just of course followed along and didn't know that I appreciated alone time. Um, I mean, I think I kind of deep down knew it, but I couldn't really like.

Explain, you know what, what it was that I needed. I just knew I was constantly overwhelmed. And then once I knew I was as sensitive, once I knew I was an introvert, I started really permitting myself to pull back on a lot of these things that I assumed were required. Uh, once I started learning about healthy boundaries, I started setting up just natural what I would still consider healthy boundaries, and then started realizing that.

These boundaries that other people were telling me were necessary didn't feel quite like enough for me. Like I still needed more space or, or what was told to me was just a period of healing and recovery that would end, and then you would be like full of all this energy and capacity and ability to receive people again.

Like that didn't happen. It was more like, oh, I love this. Wait, I don't really. Want to go back to that life and I am now five or so, I don't even know. It feels like five years in. And I have to be honest, I love my life. I love the strong boundaries that I have. And it's funny, I don't even consider them boundaries anymore.

I just consider them. My natural way of my natural rhythm of moving through life. Uh, if you've ever done my method, you know, I have a section, a layer called the Rhythm, and when I answer all of my questions in there, When I do my reflection, I require so much alone time in order to have capacity to give at the level that I wanna give with others.

And I think where I'm at now is that I'm no longer okay with half-assing relationships. And so what that means is that if a relationship looks like it's going to be. Too much right off the bat. I have a tendency to just. Not go there. And that's something that I've been recently reflecting on and kind of asking myself like, am I assuming, am I not giving people a chance?

Am I being too anticipatory of what is involved in a relationship and, and being too standoffish, right? Too reserved. Am I afraid of? Getting overwhelmed again, am I afraid of losing control? Am I asking myself all these questions to really make sure that I'm not just quote unquote isolating myself out of a place of unhealth or fear or hurt or different things like that?

And I'm not even gonna say that. That that's not true. Like it, it, I'm sure, I'm positive that there's an element of that in there because I know that if you're like me and you want to give so much to each person that's in your life, that's a big commitment. And it's not even, it's not even. Like physical time because for me, and this is the, this is the thing that I feel like is so hard for me to describe to people because I have, I have yet to come across someone that has the same experience.

And so if this is you, please DM me, let me know. Cuz I would love to know if I'm the only one. Um, which I doubt it, but I have yet to encounter someone that feels the same way. I'm trying to like figure out how to say this. When I allow someone into my inner circle into my world, I'm always thinking about them and I've gotten to a place where it's actually quite healthy.

I used to. Not have control over that. And it would just like take over my, my world and my life as I was constantly wondering about them, worrying about them, praying about them, thinking about them, and not in like an obsessive way, maybe it was, but more just like they're on my heart is the best way for me to describe it.

And so like, I would send them a text every few days, like, how are you doing? You know, or, um, meet me even every a couple weeks, you know, and just engaging. And for me that's a lot, just to be clear, to give like a, a parameter on that. Cause I know some people are the type that are like talking every day to their people, and I've never ever been that kind of person.

So for me to be like reaching out to someone, And saying like, Hey, how are you? Like, how's it going? Or even often it was just to like, thinking about you, praying for you, like based off our last conversation or whatever, whatever the topic was or whatever the thing was. And uh, and I would just, I even in my, my prayer time, my morning time, like those, those people would come up and I would be just sitting, praying over them and.

And just sending them love basically. And before I had healthy mental boundaries and emotional boundaries. I literally, that was my whole life was just like constantly, even though I was definitely moving through my life and no one else really knew, but it was just my mind. And my spirit was so consumed with other people's, uh, lives that I was kind of just cruising through mine, just floating through mine.

And now I feel like I'm very engaged with my present life, who I am, why I'm here, what I'm about, and then those that I allow into my inner circle. When I kind of turn that on, turn on that engagement, like it's just this, it's beautiful, deep, rich, uh, thoughts, prayers and or actual engagement of like reaching out, having a call, grabbing a tea, whatever, texting, things like that.

And it's just that circle has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller over the years because more because of how other people respond to my approach. Uh, and I apologize if I'm like running around in circles, but I'm just letting myself verbally express and process my thoughts here. Uh, I've noticed that when I am my true, authentic self, I don't need per, I personally don't need much interaction at all.

If I'm, if I'm brutally honest, which this is gonna maybe shock some people. Me, myself and I, God and Josh more than enough for me. I'm so happy with just that engagement as far as like continual en engagement, continual interaction. Now that to be said, I would be, of course, so devastated and sad if I didn't have the occasional engagement with friends.

Every few weeks or every few months or, um, maybe even for some of my friends that are just, we are just so connected. We can meet like twice a year. And that's enough because when we engage, it's so powerful and potent and beautiful and we just, we don't even have to speak to understand each other. It's just really, really beautiful and I do have a few people in my life that would probably say, That they're similar and that they just, that's it.

That's all they need. You know? We only need a couple interactions a year, which maybe that sounds crazy, but it's just those relationships that we just, we're so similar we're, we're moving through life in at least spiritually in such a similar way that it's, yeah, that's all we need for nourishment of our relationship and of each other, and of ourselves and for my everyday like, My relationship with God I've come to realize is quite unique and that it is so real to me.

It's so potent to me that I'm very filled by that. As well as, um, my relationship with my husband slash best friend Josh. Like, he's just such a, we're definitely a unique couple, I think, in that way, in that we really satisfy each other's, uh, relational needs. And so anything outside of that, Is what requires capacity for me and, and I have limited capacity and I'm not ashamed of that anymore.

I'm actually, I've fully embraced that. So the only issue is to go back to, I was saying before that come forward are when I engage with people that are quite different. And that is like 99% of people that just do not understand me and. And most of the time take my lack of need or. Natural desire for continual engagement as a personal rejection.

And I think, if I'm honest, most of my life I was, I played the nice girl role, I played the, I'm normal role, so I'm gonna just of course, meet up with friends every time I'm in town. Or of course I'm gonna have coffee and tea with anyone that asks me to it. And of course I'm going to text and call and, and just be.

Like maintain, quote unquote maintain like everyone else does these relationships. Cuz that's what, that's what they want from me. And if I don't give them what they want, then they will reject me. And my greatest fear was rejection. My greatest fear was to be abandoned and to be alone. And I think that's all of our greatest fear at the end.

And for me, I've come to realize that. I still to this at this moment, would not wanna be rejected and fully alone. Like I God, like I said, God and I are, we have a really powerful, nourishing relationship. But like, if, if I had no one else but him, uh, God is a he for me, uh, if you haven't picked up on that yet, but I, I, of course, would feel lonely.

I, I do feel like I am meant for human engagement and connection, but I think my. Measurement of that is quite different from most of humankind and even most of natural sensitives. And as I've become braver and become more confident in who I am, I have leaned more into my true, authentic, natural sensitive self.

And that is a lot of. Alone time technically, even though I don't feel alone. And a lot of natural releasing of relationships. And I think I've done a couple, I've mentioned here and there, kind of what that's looked like as far as like. Letting people go or people letting me go or things like that. And to be honest, some of it's been just really simple because it's, if the other person acknowledges that we're just different and, and there's just kind of this unspoken like release, then that's, that's the praise God.

That's the easiest experience. And I've had, I've had a decent amount of that, but to be honest, I've also had a lot of people that have like, I think they would put it that they fought for, and I would, I would agree with them. They fought for our relationship and that's the most heartbreaking because what they're fighting for is something that's not real.

What they're fighting for is a fake engagement with me because true relationship with me is not gonna look like what they want it to be. Does that make sense? A lot of friends or people that I meet. Based off their first impression or second, or even third or fourth impression of me, uh, because I am very friendly and very open and people feel so safe with me, which I am, I'm so honored to, to be that kind of person.

Maybe that sounds prideful. I don't know. It's just I'm, I'm very comfortable with who I am now and I'm very aware of how I impact people, and so I've just seen it time, time again where people just immediately feel safe with me and, and want to. Be close with me, which is I do consider such a responsibility and such a privilege to the point that if I cannot match them, if I cannot, uh, meet what they're experiencing, like they're experiencing a depth right off the bat, that is not what I'm experiencing.

I'm hoping that makes sense. So like a fellow woman engages with me and there's so many different ways I meet people. And they just, they adore like what I'm saying, and they feel so safe with me. Maybe I share something that they're like, oh my gosh, me too. I've never heard anyone else that has experienced that too, and they feel this instant bond with me.

They feel like, oh my gosh, I found a soulmate friend, and I feel like, oh, I just shared something that I would tell anyone. And so for me it's, it's an imbalanced relationship right off the bat. And that's so hard because. I feel the weight of their connection, and there's the part of me that wants to meet it.

One, because I want people to feel so loved and cared for, and it breaks my heart to not be that person for them to not solve that need in them that I can see so clearly. And they're looking at me and giving me all the non-verbals and maybe even physically telling me like, you're the friend that I've been waiting for, basically.

And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, that's so much like responsibility. Like, ah, and the the thing is, is like if this happened every now and then, it wouldn't be a big deal, but it happens to me all the time. And so I've had, I've been forced to learn how to. Gently love on someone while also not committing to them.

And it is the hardest line I think, of my entire existence that I have to walk. And sometimes I do it well, and sometimes I do not. Sometimes I'm not able to navigate it well and I'll own it. Sometimes it's my fault because I'm just like, Not in a good place. I'm disconnected from myself and I'm wobbling between trying to please them and then going home and remembering who I am and then being frustrated that I tried to please them.

And then, you know, like I'm, I'm human. Like that happens. And other times I, I am really connected and I'm in my true self in the moment. I'm able to like, navigate it authentically and honestly and, and beautifully and purely and cleanly. But other times I crash and burn and I hurt the other person and that is like, Like, my body's like vibrating right now.

Like, that is the most painful thing for me is to know that I hurt someone else and because I feel it, you know? And that's as sensitives like often what our biggest reason for not setting boundaries or not living authentically is, is we don't wanna hurt other people because we feel that same hurt. And it's, it's a.

If I'm fully honest, I think it's a combo of us selfishly not wanting to experience that, and then, you know, 50 50. Then the other side, just purely having such a tender spirit and so much love for the other person that we don't want them to experience it either, and maybe that percentage is off, maybe it's 60.

40 or if is my math right, whatever. And it probably varies depending on the person and the situation. And, and there's definitely times where I do meet with someone. I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I feel, I feel this too. And, and we have a mutual connection and it's a mutual engagement and there is a beautiful relationship that is fostered.

I wanna be clear that that does occur as well. But if I'm. Again, brutally honest, which I feel like this whole episode is about. That's so rare for me. It's so rare for me, and I'm sure that has a lot to do too with my own wiring, uh, my natural sensitivity, as well as my developed sensitivities, meaning my.

My physical health, if my, my nervous system is still recovering and my trauma, my, my emotional health. Like I, I know that I, I am very protective of myself and I've been rejected and hurt in the past by family and friends. And obviously I'm just describing like lots of relationships I've had to gently, you know, guide out.

And a lot of them have not gone well. And that has, of course left scars and things like that. So, um, I'm, I'm a mixed bag, you know? And I think the truth is that we all are, and if anyone's trying to act like that's not true, then I call bs. You know? Um, I, I never want to. And I know I'm gonna have moments of pride, and maybe I have, maybe you've heard me have moments of pride on this podcast because I'm absolutely human.

Uh, but I, my goal and my hope is to, as much as I can continue to remain truly not falsely, truly humble, through acknowledging and owning that I am a mixed bag, owning that I will never do something perfectly. My percentage of. Of purity and clear desire may increase and decrease depending on my personal capacity.

But my hope and my intention is always to love and to be loved. And, uh, I think that is everyone's ultimate goal, unless they're just so foggy from their own developed sensitivity, which can happen. I feel like I just shared so much. I'm like, okay, what did I just share? Uh, but I just, this episode is really a way for me to maybe get off my chest, like the reality of who I am.

And, and maybe it's a, a note to any of you that have reached out to me and wanted to connect and, and felt hurt because I, I. Hopefully gently and kindly said, that's not what I offer through this podcast. This listening to this podcast does not guarantee like a, a permanent relationship with me outside of the podcast.

And that's not because you are not worthy. That's not because you are not an amazing human. That's not because I am, don't love you. It's not because I'm, I'm rejecting you. It's just because. That's who I am. And, uh, it's, and it's not even that like a person has to be perfect or. Have everything together to like come into my inner world.

That's not even it at all. I have my, my inner world, people will tell you they're, they're mixed bags as well. It's, it's a weird, intuitive spirit connection thing that I just sometimes have with people and sometimes don't. And if I do have it, I lean into that and if I don't, I trust that and I release, which is really weird in our culture because I don't know too many people that honestly do that, and I feel like an alien because of it, and I feel sometimes like a horrible person because of it, because I feel.

Like, I let so many people down and I disappoint so many people. Um, but more and more as I get older, as I get deeper into who God made me to be, the less willing I am to be someone that I am not in order to make someone else feel better and I have to, in order to balance that, those emotions that come forward with that I have to trust.

That if someone walks into my life in any way, that I don't feel an intuitive connection to, that I'm not feeling a strong yes to, even if they're a beautiful soul that maybe I'm very intrigued by, I'm very drawn to in other ways, I have to trust that God is bringing them into my life in order for me to say no.

In order for them to experience that and to have something. Hopefully beautiful results out of it. That is something that human design has really helped me with. Being a manifestor, which is my energy type in human design, it means that I am a literal catalyst. And when I first learned that has been a huge part of my.

My healing process, I was so honestly angry of like, I don't wanna be a manifestor. Manifestors are are intense. They're quote unquote mean. They're, they're, they're weirdos. They're these odd hermits that upset everyone and are angry all the time and like, I wanna be a projector. Like projectors are these wise guides that everyone loves and everyone responds to and feels so cared for by, and all these things.

Listen, I have a lot of projector energy to me, especially as my profiles a six two. I am here to be a guide. I am here to be a teacher. I am here to be that. That kind of. Up on the mountaintop view. Like I don't get caught up in the day-to-day drama. And I think that's another reason why I don't work well in those constant interactions that are talking about the day-to-day drama.

Um, I'm just like, I don't even, it's like my spirit doesn't even understand it. Like I, I can't go there anyways. So I have projector energy in a lot of ways, and I think that confuses people because they're like, oh, she's going to give me the projector. Um, relationship and no, I'm actually a manifester. I can give you the guiding and the teaching, which I'm so happy to, and I hope I always am so generous with that.

But the intimacy of. Engagement with many people is not my strength. I am a hermit. I probably in another lifetime could easily have been a nun or a monk. Like, to be purely honest, I really actually could have lived that life quite well. And my husband and I even joke sometimes that when I go into my deep permit seasons, I'm like totally, I call it my monastery season.

Like, yeah, I'm in, I'm totally in monastery mode. Like I just, and. I don't see that as unhealth anymore. For me, I see it cuz it ebbs and flows sometimes. I'm very social. It's weird. I get hit by these social seasons and then I have these deep, long monastery seasons and that's once I learned human design and I like literally that's how a manifestor is described.

I was like, holy shit. Oh, okay. That's just me. All this to say, if anything I'm saying resonates with you, please know you're not alone. Please lean into your authenticity. And I acknowledge, and I I'm with you in how fucking hard it is to, to live out because it's so not, not only not the norm in our culture, but it's literally seen as unhealth.

It's seen as. A mental disorder. Sometimes it's seen as these really aggressive labels that I don't agree with. And I'm not saying that there aren't people that fall under those labels, and I'm maybe not even saying that Sometimes I don't follow under those labels. But I also can honestly say that this is truly who I am.

And if culture decides that my love of alone time is a sign of UN health. Then, okay, maybe that's how they're gonna label me. But if that's who I truly know myself to be, I'm going to continue to be that. Even if it means that I'm ostracized or labeled in a weird way until hopefully later at a later date, it's understood or accepted.

And that may or may not come, but at the end of the day, I need to be able to live with myself. I, I want to be. As I said in the very beginning, the most pure, potent form of myself for those that I do feel I am intentionally meant to invest in, and I have many levels of investment, which may sound very strategic and cold.

That's the Capricorn side of me. I don't mean it from a place of coldness, it's just a way that my mind understands and kind of organizes. How I engage with people so that I'm not overwhelmed. Okay. Like for me, I have like this podcast, like I'm currently giving so much of myself to you in this vulnerable way, but there is a level of boundary and that I can't see you.

I can kind of energetically feel the vibration of people listening, which is an interesting experience. Uh, but I, I'm not overwhelmed in any way by it. Then I have. Random people I meet on the street like the same thing. That doesn't drain me. I actually. Really love engaging with strangers because there is kind of this ease and freedom to it, and there isn't this expectation usually if I navigate it well of commitment beyond that.

And then there's like my clients, for example, who I value so highly and I feel deeply called to. And so for me, there's a lot of protective steps that I take to honor my energy so that I can be present with them. And I've had to really limit my client base in order to do that well. And then there's, you know, kind of on the same level are like friends and dare I say, family, you know, and a lot of my friends and family would wanna be at a closer level.

But the truth is, I kind of. Inter engage with them in a similar manner that I do with my clients and, and then literally there's this huge gap, and then there's this, what I would call my inner circle of like . And it, it changes like kind of based on the season, but it's includes myself, Josh, God, and then like a handful of people and kind of based on their own availability.

Sometimes too, it can shift and, and people can pop in and pop out, and it's not this rigid like you have to apply kind of thing. It's just this, I don't know how to describe it. It's just this flowy system where, In general, I usually have anywhere from like four to five people in my life that are in that inner circle at a time that I'm kind of investing in, in, in, in a more intimate way.

And they may not even know it sometimes to be perfectly honest, because a lot of times it can be an internal awareness and just kind of like holding them and, and that's, this may sound so weird to people, but it's like I feel spiritually called to do that and it's, um, I don't even know how to explain it.

And, and maybe I'm just a strange person and may or maybe everyone experiences this, but I've never heard anyone talk about it this way. Uh, but I do, I kind of like hold people in my mind in certain ways, and even people from like the quote unquote other layers. I may bring into that inner circle, and again, they may not even know it, but I'll bring them in for like a week just because maybe they told me something that was really like, it's usually like a hardship or something's just going on in their life.

Maybe it's a beautiful thing and I just feel very called to send love and energy and prayer and a lot of my presence to them. Again, it's so like energetic. I do a lot of my. Support energetically, I think is the best way to describe it. And so that's kind of what it looks like for me. And I think a lot of the pushback I feel from people, it's, it's mostly from people that really long for my physical presence.

And I get that from my intimate family. I get that from friends, I get that from clients. I get that from all sorts of people that just like would love to meet up with me in person and they want my physical body in their presence. And honestly, that for me is so. Challenging because that is where I am the most drained.

And so I have to be really filled up in order to do that. And what that requires is a lot of anticipatory notice. It's really hard for me to be flexible with my, uh, in-person time, unless I've had a lot of, like I've been in a monastery season. And I'm at the end of a monastery season and I'm like super filled up.

Then I get these crazy bursts of flexible energy where I'm like popping into people's lives, like, Hey, let's get together. And I'm like, so free. It's very extreme and I'm, I'm very filled up, so I have a lot of energy to give and I can be flexible and then, It dies off quite quickly, especially if I kind of use it up a lot.

And I think what's so hard is that when people just kind of observe me, it's quite confusing. And so they're like, but you're giving me weird vibes because you were so flexible here and then now you're being so, no, I need a lot of, you know, I need some rest time, or I'm not available, or you're so quote unquote guarded.

Or they may interpret it as caged or restricted or. Whatever, like you're blocking me, you're not letting me in at the same level of flexibility you did a couple weeks ago. And, and so I've had to take responsibility and learn my own pattern so that I can then communicate them to others. And again, I'm a mixed bag.

I'm in no way doing this perfectly. I'm, I'm hope to get better and better at it every year of my life to be able to help people not be hurt unintentionally by my natural rhythms because, That's one thing I think that's important to clarify that I've learned and I'm, I'm currently learning is that living authentically.

Doesn't give you permission to be a bitch. Doesn't give you permission to be mean. Doesn't give you permission. Just be like, well, fuck them. They need to figure it out. They need to figure me out. Right. That is true selfishness and in, I would say in the unhealthy form of selfishness, that's borderline narcissism, you know?

And so for me, it's walking the line of being authentic and owning who I am and honoring and respecting who I am will also. Recognizing that 99.9% of the people in the world are different from me, which is still kind of a new concept to me, and being gracious and kind enough to put myself in their shoes, which is not that hard for me, thankfully, but to then find the right words to communicate to them who I am so that they're not hurt.

Now, that is the end of my responsibility, right, is. Really taking that time to be like, Hey, I get it if this is confusing because I was so like energetic couple weeks ago, but this is my rhythm. This is who I am. It has nothing to do with who you are, how much I love you, how much I care for you, how much value you bring to this world to me, how I respect you.

This is literally based off my body's physical 3D ability to be present with you. And I'm not able to juggle that at this time. Like that's an example of something I would say. And once I've done my best in that moment, whether it was an incredible job or a a terrible job, I do my best with what I have in that moment to communicate.

And then my job is done. And how they choose to take those words, to take that intention, to take that energy that's behind it, to take my heart. And interpret it for themselves is their own business. And so I cannot fix, if they choose to see it as rejection, if they choose to see it as something negative, if they choose to be hurt by it, I can't fix that, and I'm no longer going to try to fix that.

And that is the biggest difference from who I was. Years ago, I no longer, Hmm. Sometimes I do. Let me be honest, I no longer attempt or I, I often try not to attempt, I'm trying to be totally honest, to manage people, to manage their reactions so that I am accepted. And what that means is that I experience rejection often.

And it's, it's, it's painful on both sides and, and I grieve. I grieve so much. That's probably one of my biggest emotions. I grieve the relationships and the engagements that went south that went sour when I didn't want them to. My hope is always a peaceful, loving release, whether it's just for. One request for a T date or an entire relationship.

And I think those that know me and love me truly for who I am, have come to respect my very independent, very hermit like Nish True self. And those are the people that have stood the test of time in my life. Those that cannot accept that are constantly hurt by me because they're trying to battle for and get me and coax me and trigger me into being someone that I am not, or they are trying to respect who I am.

This is the most heartbreaking one for me. They're trying to respect who I am. But at the end of the day, they just don't understand. And they just long for me to be someone else, but I'm not, and it's so hard for them and it's so hurtful and they just, they so wish I could be who they thought I was. And that's, that's the relationship I grieve the most.

Um, those are the relationships that are just so painful for me. And, and I do. It's, it's a, it's a, a gentle grieving and a, a gentle forgiving of myself and, and if needed, a forgiving of them. I often don't feel like they need forgiveness because it's just a, a misunderstanding, a miscommunication, uh, to different people trying to figure it out and, uh, yeah, and it's, it's hard.

So for anyone that has experienced that, Whether they're the receiver of that or the giver of that, I, I see you and I send you so much love, and I have, I've actually, I, I think I've also been the receiver of that at times. I can't think of a, an example right now, but I'm sure I have been, I actually have a lot of manifesters in my life, which is so funny.

So funny. I, I find, I think I've shared with you guys that both my parents are manifestors, which is really, really weird to have three manifestors in one family. So, I've seen the array of manifestor ness and I'm doing, I'm attempting my best at being the most healthy version of manifestor that I feel I'm called to be.

So, oh my gosh, this has been a really oof. I'm gonna have to do some I didn't. I po. I was about to do yoga and then I paused to like record this because I just felt like I was supposed to share it in the moment, which is always scary to me because I am an emotional authority in human design, which means oftentimes it's best for me to like sit on stuff.

But if I'm honest with myself, this is something I've been sitting on for years. So I'm sure there's so much more I could add and say and that I will come to learn and grow in over the next few weeks, months, years that I could add to this episode. And maybe I'll make another episode in the future on this, but.

I just felt like pausing in my life and sharing where I am and sharing this part of me so that those of you that listen, this is my announcement of who I am, my attempt to. Give you a fair warning also, as I said in the beginning, to clarify that this is not how all natural sensitives are. So if I say things that are based off my experience and my opinion, and you feel in the future around any topic and you feel like, oh, that's so weird, that's not how I experience life, it doesn't mean that you're no longer a natural sensitive or no longer welcome in the club or whatever.

It just means that we're wired differently. Um, and that's totally acceptable and totally lovely. So just tweak if I, if you're gonna take my advice, tweak it. To match what is authentic to you and what feels right and, and feels in alignment with your own intuition and your own divine guidance. So please, please, please, I am in no way, should no way be put on a pedestal.

I am definitely a work in progress just here to share my raw. Authentic self as much as I can on this space. So as we carry forward in the seasons that come in, the episodes that come, may you feel that and, uh, may you feel freedom to be yourself, however that is. Maybe you're on the totally other end of the spectrum of me and you're like, wow, that's crazy.

Like, I love being in connection with people all the time and that actually calms me down and relaxes my overwhelm and like, that's totally possible. You may feel so, you know, different like, I'm an alien and that's, or maybe you feel like an alien listening to me. That's okay. Please know that. Please know that.

So, yeah, I just, I hope that everyone feels permission from this share and good luck to Delfina as she attempts to summarize. The notes and the show notes and the title for this, this episode, everyone pray for her or she'll have done it by now. So everyone give thanks for her. I always feel bad when I record these kinds of like heartfelt episodes that like have no structure.

I always think of her, I'm like, oh, poor delphina. She's gonna have to like figure out how to summarize these show notes on the practical side. So just a little like random glimpse into what it's like to have a podcast and. Have a team and yeah, Delfina is a gift to us. All you guys like send her love through dms on, on the podcast, uh, Instagram, if ever you think of it.

She's the one that keeps us all sane as we listen to my, my random all over the place chats. Just how my brain works. Ugh. Okay, I will stop it here. I love you all. And may you be blessed. May you be blessed by this episode and the past episodes and the future episodes. May you feel divine connection through all of them and be drawn to God and to all that God made you to be to your authentic self.

Ugh, I just. I'm just excited for all of us as we grow and face this crazy, interesting, exciting era of humankind. My gosh, so much going on. But the more that we are our true selves, as odd and weird as that may come across to everyone else, the healthier we will make this world. And, um, the pure this experience will be and the more we will experience heaven on Earth, which I think is the ultimate personally.

So that's it. I love you guys. See you in the next episode. Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method.

It'll get you started, or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper Health Imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care of a Tri my friend.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

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Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi

Episode 36: How to Navigate a Sensitive Body Crisis

Conversation

Episode 36 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jessi Michel Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi: Hello and welcome my friends. It's so good to have you here. I am delighted to have your ear and excited to jump in today's topic. It is a solo episode, so we're gonna be diving into a topic that has been very, uh, present in my life. In the last week. I had a whole slew of fun things to share, and then this one just kept coming forward, so I'm going to accept the, the invitation to share on it and discuss a topic that is, Very real to me, very real to my clients, very real to many of you.

And that is navigating a sensitive body in crisis. And what I mean by a body in crisis is, Your body in a state of discomfort, your body in a state of perhaps pain your body in a state of overwhelm. And alongside that comes the feelings of fear and potentially even panic. And I wanna share how I personally navigate these kinds of situations.

I do wanna clarify right off the bat, That I am not discussing emergencies. There is a line between what I would call like a sensitive body crisis and a true emergency where you do need to go to a hospital, you need to, you know, reach out for, uh, medical care. That is another stage. And I may, through the course of this, explain when at what point, you know, I would determine that personally.

Um, and this is something too where, you know, if you are navigating a healing season and you have a protocol that you've been given, uh, by like a naturopath or an integrative doctor, a nutritionist, an acupuncturist, a chiropractor, a do you know, whoever you're seeing, um, this may be something that you're experiencing and maybe even feeling frustrated about.

So I thought I would dive in cuz this is very, very common and this is actually one of the areas where I am quite different, uh, than a lot of my colleagues in my field. And it's one of the things that I do that's very unique to, uh, support the sensitive body. So, Uh, let's just jump in. I'll share my story to begin, and then, um, I'll kind of talk about some other options and, and how I move through it.

So, in the last week, I started to notice that I was reacting to things and. I've done a lot of healing work, but I've of course had ups and downs of being exposed to different things, um, having my gut symptoms come back here and there based on stress. The main one for me, if you've been listening to the podcast, you know, this, is that I keep getting exposed to toxic mold and my body does not handle that well, uh, naturally.

So I have a really hard time detoxing mold spores, um, and mycotoxins the toxins that. Certain molds release out of my body, they tend to just hang out inside of me and not clear. Um, and I, I'm also allergic, so I have this added element that really heightens the experience. So fun. But, uh, I, this last week, I just kind of felt like everything was being heightened again.

I had started to settle down following my hyperbaric treatment like a bit ago. Uh, I had, during the hyperbaric, I had felt some symptoms come forward, but then they kind of calmed down. And then all of a sudden I started having these things again and I was like, why am I so reactive? What's happening? Am I, why am I responding to food or air or just different things in my home or out and about?

I'm like, is it seasonal allergies? Is like, what's going on? And so I started as a practitioner, you know, I'm going through my little checklist of all the things that could be causing it, making sure like all the different areas in my home ramped up my air filters. Just thought about all the different layers, um, and the main symptom that kept coming forward.

Was kind of respiratory in that I had a hard time breathing, and I don't mean like I was gonna die or pass out, just to be clear. It was more just like I couldn't get a full breath. And, uh, if I, if I focused on it and I started like getting consumed by it, then it could create a, a sense of panic in my body, which would then make it worse.

So, um, I know myself, I, I've dealt with a lot of respiratory issues throughout my entire life. It's one of my, my weaker organ systems. It's a tendency of my body to go there. My whole childhood, I dealt with basically barely sleeping at night cuz I couldn't breathe or I couldn't, or I felt super nauseous or, but a lot of it had to do with respiratory issues.

So, um, but I haven't dealt with that in, in a while, in a really long time, other than the hyperbaric. Chamber, which I think was bringing that forward in a good way. Uh, so that being said, I was just like, what is going on here? And um, background note, this is also during right when Mercury retrograde No, the Eclipse, mercury, and the Eclipse.

I'm not gonna remember this correctly. Some sort of big astrological movement was occurring and I was like, oh my gosh, maybe this is like an emotional thing. Um, cuz uh, for those that don't know, every organ system holds emotions and. The lungs tend to hold onto grief. And so for me, I was like, okay, am I, am I healing?

Uh, am I releasing some grief from my childhood? Am I releasing some grief around some other situation? You know, I was looking at all the angles, emotional, physical, environmental, even relational. I was like, what's going on here? Am I feeling trapped? Um, just singing through all the possibilities I could create.

That kind of physical response of struggling to fully drop my diaphragm and get a full breath. Uh, and as I did, you know, I started to, I, I was, it was funny cuz I was like going into my old pattern of like obsessive. Trying obsessively trying to fix it and resolve it. And then this other side of me that was kind of like witnessing it of like, wow, look at me.

I'm just like really getting involved, trying to like, yeah, obsessively trying to resolve what this, what this problem is, you know? And um, and getting over consumed with it and just like, Getting cranky about it and just getting like irritable if someone did something that like ruined the environment or like turned like if my husband turned down the air filter, which he didn't do, I'm just thinking of an example or something like that.

And uh, and so I was just witnessing that going, okay, what is happening? And it wasn't until probably like four days in that I was suddenly like, oh, I'm having a healing reaction. Like something's happening here, and I, which is, you know, I should know right off the bat, but when it's your own body, sometimes it can take a little bit to kind of wake yourself up to, oh, this is something that's staying, you know, this isn't just a, a temporary situation.

So around day four-ish, maybe five, I was like, okay, something is clearly happening. My body's reacting to all sorts of things, or my respiratory system is reacting to all sorts of things. Like it's not clearly one thing that's like a bunch of things. So what that means is that my body is in a state of overwhelm and any new, any additional information on top of what's already going on inside my body is.

Putting it into a state of panic and alarm, uh, which we've discussed this at length on this, uh, this podcast, and it has a lot to do with us. The way that we process as sensitive is that we take in a ton of information, and so if we're not filing and processing that well, or reducing, if it's too much information, reducing the amount of information, we can easily find that our, our capacity buckets are overflowing.

And that overflowing feeling can look like emotional reaction or body reaction or if you're lucky you get both. Which I was kind of getting both cuz I was, I was first the body and then I was starting to feel frustrated about it, like what is happening? I thought I just like landed and cruised into a beautiful like peaceful healing season and like a gentle healing season.

And why is this happening now? I thought I'd resolved everything and. Um, and that was the old me of just getting so frustrated and weary and tired of my body being so reactive, right? Because I've, I've, I've thought I progressed beyond this, you know? And, um, it's just normal. And that is part of being a sensitive is that regardless of how much you've healed in the past or the present, any time your body brings forward a new layer, Uh, it's going to potentially feel overwhelming unless you slow down.

So that's my first recommendation. If what I'm describing sounds familiar or you've experienced it in the past, or maybe even right now, if you're also experiencing a lot with what's going on astrologically and you're like, oh my gosh, so much cleansing and just healing and all the things, um, I'm gonna invite you to slow down and that's gonna feel like the opposite of what you're gonna wanna do because often as sensitives, we, it's weird.

It's like we almost lean into the, uh, Mental world is a way to describe it. Um, our brain starts to go into hyperdrive because it's like, it's in that alarm sympathetic mode of, of survival. And when you're in that state, you start to be very obsessive about problem solving. And so I see this all the time in my clients, and of course I see it in myself as well.

I'm not above any of it by any means. Um, but it, it sometimes can be hard to identify when it's in your own mind. You just. You know, you're just, oh, I'm just trying to, just trying to figure it out, you know? But you might notice that maybe your partner or people around you are kind of like, whoa, like what is going on?

You're not yourself. You're being very, you know, over the top emotional, or you're being really focused and intense. I get very intense. My poor sweet esmond. It's like, oh my gosh, uh, just take a chill bill. Uh, which I hate when he says that, but you know what I mean. It's like the last thing you wanna hear when you're intense is to calm down.

And that's literally what I'm telling you to do right now is when you start to ramp up, when you start to like get rigid and then, and you feel your whole body contracting, like, I gotta find this solution and figure this out cuz I don't want this experience anymore. I wanna be done with this suffering.

The tendency is actually to. Create a physical environment that actually worsens it and actually puts you into panic mode. And so it's going to feel very counterintuitive at first to slow down. Um, and you don't necessarily even have to calm down. I'm doing quotes around that, but just slow down for a minute, just.

When you feel like running around or punching a pillow or screaming or yelling, cuz you're just so frustrated with how your body's expressing itself in a way that's unwanted. Just take a beat and just sit for a minute and just let your body buzz. Let it do its thing. But just focus in on your breathing for a minute.

Take a deep inhale and exhale it out. And just do that a couple times really until you feel like you can somewhat settle and the first time you do it, it may be hard, you may still be whirling in the mind and almost like annoyed or irritated. I don't know if you guys ever watched the show, new Girl, but I think of this one episode I love New Girl.

I don't think I've even talked about that on this episode or this podcast, but, um, Schmidt is a character that is very wound up, very, very uptight, very rigid, very contracted, and he has to go to work and he has an ulcer. And his, his sweet friend Nick, is trying to get him to take a break and rest, and they're telling him to breathe and he, he's so contracted.

His breath is like, like he just like can't even. Like relax, his vocal chords, his esophagus, like he's just so. Like just so contracted. And I just laugh because I can so relate to that. Like I just, you get so obsessed with like, I have to like, move forward with my life. I have to live my every day. I can't be quote unquote weak, right?

I can't, I can't show my weakness as a sensitive yet again. Like, I need to be normal. I need to fit in. And, um, all those emotions roll in, they race in. And the body responds and uh, and that just worsens typically the symptoms. So then you get more frustrated. But if you do slow down and you are able to just witness yourself and take a beat and recognize, oh, I'm having one of those healing crises that Jesse talked about, okay, I'm gonna just take a moment and breathe.

In that moment, there's a possibility that some clarity might come through. If not, it's okay. Number two is to start removing things. Start removing things from your life because as sensitives, when we are in that state of overwhelm, panic. Healing crisis, body crisis, it means there's too much information.

Just like the mind. The mind can get overwhelmed and go into panic mode, anxiety from too much information. So can the body. If the body is receiving too much information, and that can come from the mind, but sometimes it's just straight up in the body that can create a similar experience and you can, you can feel panic and uh, alarm in the body.

So I. This is one of the big differences between sensitives and those that are not sensitive or at least lower on the sensitivity spectrum, is that when you're in a moment of healing crisis, and this also applies if you're sick, um, just like a normal cold, something like that, you actually need less support.

You actually need to pull back on the things you're doing. So for example, if you're like me, Um, and you really enjoy natural supports. I freaking love supplements. Like I love taking a ton of supplements on my, in my every day. I'm not afraid of that. I don't have a problem with it. I love it. I feel so good on supplements.

My body really appreciates that kind of intake. I'm not a fan of IVs. I'm not a fan of many of those bypassing ways to get nutrients, and I need to do an episode on that as to why, but, I love taking supplements and uh, when I start to have a healing reaction, a healing crisis, or I get sick, I pull back and I will literally stop.

All I've learned cuz I used to just kind of reduce, which you absolutely can do by the way. You can reduce down to like what I would call your bare minimums of maybe you're taking some supports for digestion. But like any other things other than that, any eradicate, any optimizers. If you don't know what your supplements are for, this is a great encouragement to make sure that you know what each supplement is doing in your body.

If you're working with a practitioner, always have them explain to you and write it down so you can revisit. Why you're taking each supplement. You should not be taking a supplement that you, that you don't know why you're taking it. You always need to understand the reason behind it because then you can empower yourself to know if you need to continue.

If you need to stop, you shouldn't be relying on your practitioner for that. Um, that's at least my opinion. If you want to have an empowered. Partnership as opposed to just someone dictating into your life, which is not what allows for an authentic connected body experience. So back to what I was saying, uh, reducing down to those minimum supplements.

Or just fully stopping all of them, just taking a break and saying, I'm gonna take the next 24 hours fully off and I'm gonna observe my body and see how it, how it works. Now if you're not taking supplements, it can look like any other support it could look like. Um, if you're getting any sort of treatment done, you know, if you're doing something like hyperbaric or you're getting a massage or you're getting all these different things done, don't.

Just cancel the appointment or reschedule and say, I'm just gonna, I need to pull back. I need to give my body space. We need less information, less intake, more space. Okay, so that's number two is to reduce and create space. Now, I said after step one, this possibility might get some clarity. After step two, you'll definitely get more clarity.

Step three is to really sit with your body and to actually intentionally witness your thoughts, witness your body's response. Get back to breathing and start to notice where in my body am I holding panic? And maybe that word feels intense. If that doesn't feel good to you, where am I holding anxiety or where am I holding apprehension?

That's an even lighter term. Where am I holding rigidity and just feel into it. Obviously this past week or so, for me it was in my lungs, you know, and I'm going, why am I, why? What's going on here? Why are my lungs not able to fully expand? Like, what's happening here? Why am not able to fully, why am I not able to fully drop my diaphragm?

And that's where I really started to think about, okay, what's my emotional state? What am I moving through potentially, you know, at a trauma level? What am I moving through memory wise? What am I. Thinking about future-wise, you know, what am I marinating my brain in that's impacting my body? And then from a physical standpoint, what have I been doing with my body?

What have I been introducing to my body? And as I was in that step three, Thinking about all the things, I'm like, oh yeah, I did do hyperbaric. And you know, it wasn't actually that long ago, so maybe my body's just moving through another layer from that experience, because if we do a healing type of therapy, it's not done.

In that moment, like it keeps the, there's a ripple effect and sometimes you don't even feel the effect till weeks later. So it's quite possible that my body was still kind of moving through what had come forward from that treatment. Um, I also had been introducing a really beautiful, potent glutathione that's like revolutionary.

Um, I'm so excited about it, but I definitely was kind of progressing pretty quickly through it cuz I thought I was doing great. But all of a sudden I think it compounded and it was just too much, and so I had pulled back fully off of that. And then I realized, oh yeah, I also had started taking some ozonated olive oil capsules, cuz I just wanted see how that felt.

Oh, that's right. And I also brought in that binder and then, and I started to realize, oh, over the course of the last like three weeks, I've been actually adding in all these things. And even though I'd started each of those individual things at a low level, and I was watching that at a low level, I hadn't considered the big, I hadn't stepped back in a while and considered the big picture of like, oh, Even though I'm at a very low dose for all these things, I'm still introducing all of them at the same time.

My body's navigating all that information at the same time. I'd also been doing yoga a lot more frequently, like every single day and walking and doing some other things. So I had improved my circulation and lymphatic flow, which can bring forward. Things that have been stored and just sitting, uh, in my body.

So I, I started just listing all these things and I was like, oh my gosh, what did I do to my poor little body? And then my anger and my frustration diffused. I mean, it wasn't fully gone cuz I was still just like, you know, it's, it's very normal. I just wanna say this, it's very normal as a sensitive to still have frustration here and there of like, I just wanna fit in.

I don't wanna be the sensitive butterfly, I don't wanna be the canary in the coal mine. Like I know. That's my role. I know that's my gift to this world, but sometimes I just wanna be like everyone else. Like the grass is greener on the other side kind of situation and that's just being human and that's okay.

It's okay to feel that way. Um, There's no like perfect place where you never feel that again. Uh, maybe when we die and we're divine, I don't know, but not now. Uh, so it's okay to still have some of those feelings, but the intensity of the emotions should dissipate at that point. And you should start to have a better grasp of the bigger picture.

And your body, since you've started to pull back, should start to feel a little bit calmer. Now. At this point, if you have reduced everything, and it's been, I would give it at least 72 hours, so three days. So don't panic if it doesn't resolve in 24 to 48 hours, like your body needs space and time to dissipate, to clear what all that information that came forward needs to file it, utilize it, clear the excess, all of that.

So after about 72 hours, if you're like. I still feel the same intensity of symptoms. I still feel panicked that I can't control with breath or creating space or awareness or all these things. That is where you may want to check in with your expert on hand, your partner on hand. So again, whether if you're working through a protocol check in and maybe you check in sooner depending on your relationship with that person, but, and where you are and your protocol.

If you're not on a protocol, um, that may be the point where you do check in with a medical, you know, someone, not necessarily emergency status, but maybe someone that's your kind of everyday support, your lifestyle support. Um, and of course if your symptoms have escalated, despite all of these measures, and I'm gonna give you a few more tools as well, but despite these beginning, uh, measures, that's where you start to go.

Okay. I'm gonna keep watching this, but if this continues to escalate, I am going to, you know, take myself somewhere where I can be examined and make sure that this isn't an emergency situation. So I do wanna be clear about that. If that is not the case and you are either, you know, uh, the same or reducing, you're not escalating, um, there's some other wonderful tools that you can bring in and.

Depending on your situation, um, these tools can be applicable. So I'm, I'm mainly going to, uh, Share what I used for respiratory conditions because I could spend hours and hours discussing all the options based, depending on how your body's reacting. But since I just went through a respiratory situation and in light of recent, you know, viral situations in our, in our world and all of that, I know respiratory is, is a very common, uh, symptom and situation.

So, One of the number one things that I love to do, um, is nebulizing. And this is something that, uh, you can use an actual machine for, oops, sorry, I hit my mic. You can use an actual machine for, or you can even kind of create freely in, um, a bathroom situation. So nebulizing is basically where we're bringing in, um, your basically creating some sort of, uh, Breathable.

You can actually do it with medication, you can do it with nutrients, you can do it with just pure water, but you are making it so that you're able to breathe in, uh, whatever it is that you're putting in the nebulizing unit. I like to keep it very simple. I just nebulize, um, hydrogen peroxide water and uh, if you are in a viral situation, You have like a fever or you're showing symptoms of a virus, uh, like covid.

Uh, you can also add liquid iodine to it. So I have a whole thing that I do with clients with this, and I'm not gonna try and. Explain that here. But I will say that nebulizing, even just pure filtered water, never use tap water. Please never use tap water for anything. Um, other than maybe washing your hands on occasion.

Uh, if you're nebulizing, even just pure water, you're giving your body that oxygen. Right away. Um, what is water, right? So within water is oxygen and also hydrogen. Uh, and you're able to help your body also create some moisture. And, and calm and soothe the respiratory system. So an easy way to do this, and I know I'm speaking very, very generally right now, I just don't wanna get into the nitty gritty of it.

Uh, but another way to do that is to just literally put yourself in a bathroom, close the door, turn on the shower or the bathtub at the highest heat it can go. And just let the steam coming off of that. You can either, obviously you don't wanna sit in it if it's burning hot, but you can sit on the side of the tub.

Um, if it's, if you don't wanna go too hot, you can sit in the tub, but the goal is to just breathe in the steam. Um, you can also, you know, put a hot a bowl, just pour hot water into a bowl, put a little, uh, towel over your head and just, uh, place your face over that steaming bowl and just gently breathe it in.

Those are kind of free ways to do this, but I do think it's helpful for everyone to have a nebulizer at home. It's a really, really simple, I recommend a desktop option, but you, it's basically a machine that just, uh, I'm trying to think of a word other than nebulizing. Uh, but it just, it allows water to become like steam.

It allows the liquid, uh, whatever you end up putting in the liquid form in the cup to become. Aerated so that you're breathing it in. So you can use a little tube or you can have a little mask. Um, but the machine itself just creates that, that steam in a way. Um, so I feel like I'm not explaining this well at all.

I wasn't planning to talk about the nebulizer, but I've just found that that's a really gentle, easy way to open up the lungs if you're having any sort of respiratory issue. And it can. It can also help you to kind of calm down. Uh, it, it does calm the body, I've found, and a lot of times with respiratory issues,

half of it is panic, I guess, is the best way to describe it. Because if you start to feel like you can't breathe, your body is gonna think that it's dying. Because naturally if you can't get oxygen, it's going to die. So it starts to panic. Your body literally starts to panic, and so it's telling you, get more oxygen.

Get more oxygen. You're just kind of, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I can't. I can't breathe. I can't breathe, and it just creates this marriage of panic and true need. Um, that escalates it far beyond what it would be without the panic. And so what I've personally found is that if I can do steps 1, 2, 3, slow down, remove information, witness myself, create space, breathe.

Suddenly I'm able to get a little bit more breath. I'm, I'm able to expand my lungs a little bit more, maybe not as fully as my body wants me to, but it's also not as bad as before when I was getting caught up in all of it. So, There is something to be said for truly attempting to calm your own body down, and this is where it's very helpful.

Um, this is gonna kinda lead me to my next point of having a plan prior to being in that situation. So, Obviously if I don't know what a nebulizer is, if I don't know about, you know, my body going into panic mode when I have a respiratory issue, if I don't know those things, that first experience is of course gonna be really scary and I'm, I'm going to.

Think the worst. I'm going to think that I'm gonna die, I'm going to be going to those extreme situations because my body is kind of forcing me there because it's, it is genuinely afraid. It's so primal. It's like, I'm gonna liver, I'm gonna die. Like it's very, very simple. Um, and so it. In that way also, uh, it makes sense that a lot of us like go to that extreme.

If I need to go to the emergency room or I need to see my doctor, or I need to whatever, when maybe all you need to do is take a breath and use a nebulizer, you know, and within like a couple hours you might actually be okay. Um, As opposed to sitting for hours and hours in an emergency room waiting to see a doctor and just getting more and more panicked.

Uh, so I do think there's a lot of power in having a plan prior to experiencing these situations. So I'm hoping that this podcast is encouraging you to create an active plan of like, okay, where, what does my body typically do? Like, that's where I would start. So for me, I, I shared with you that I've had, um, weaker lungs from a very young age.

Like I, my body has expressed it's, it's. It's, uh, imbalances, it's issues, it's frustrations, it's concerns through my, my respiratory system. That is often where it goes for me. That, and also my throat. I, I will get strep throat really easily. A sore throat I used to at least. And, um, and then my respiratory system with allergies.

Um, that's also sinuses, right? So sinuses and lungs, um, that's where my body tends to show itself if I get a cold or if I have a healing reaction. Um, and I also express that it can also show up through my skin, right? Through acne or through a rash or, um, I haven't, I've been. Very grateful. I have never had like eczema or anything like that, but it's rashes are very, very common for me.

Um, like hives are very common for me, and acting was very common when I was younger. Um, so my body would express in those manners. And, uh, for, for you, maybe it's headaches, migraines, um, or it's, it is eczema or dermatitis of some kind, or, um, maybe it's joint pain, right? Like everyone's different in how their body.

Expresses the need to slow down, the need to reduce information that that feeling of overwhelm. And so look back at your history. And I'm so excited. I'm working on adding to the method, um, how to build out your health story, how to do everything I'm talking about in many ways, not everything, but a lot of what I'm talking about.

Um, so t v d, uh, or it's coming soon. Anyways, uh, but to look back at your history and say, okay, as a child, you know, what were my common symptoms? And maybe even talk to your guardians about this. You know, your family, your peers. Like, Hey, do you remember like, when I got sick, what, what did it usually look like?

Or, or, when I was unwell in some way, what did it look like? Um, And even, you know, your young adulthood and adulthood to now, how does my body usually express itself? What are, what are my patterns? And once you've identified those patterns, then you can start to make a plan of like, okay, in the future, if this were to occur, what are some tools that would be really helpful and really empowering to me in that moment.

So for me, The nebulizer has been huge for helping to, you know, soften the impact on my lungs and to open up my sinuses and to do all these different things. Uh, another big one for me is, um, I have this beautiful, it's very simple. This beautiful natural bomb that's kind of like, I think there's like a, a more western one, but it has, you know, menthol and different, uh, has holy basil and a, a nice space of coconut oil.

But what it does again, is it just opens up the sinuses. And so I just do a little bit right under my nose and I'll rub it on my chest and it just, at least for about 30 minutes, it can really open everything up and it helps my body to calm down so I don't go into that panic. Um, I also have all the way I wanna be clear, I have those, you know, simple supports all the way through.

Like if it's an allergy, you know, a big al allergic response, which I can have. Um, I have histamine blockers that are natural. Um, there's different forms of that from nettle all the way to a literal blocker. And then of course, I, I still keep on hand, um, a form of Benadryl. Um, it's a natural or more natural form of Benadryl.

Uh, Gena is a great company for that. By the way, any mamas listening, anyone that wants like a natural medication. GenX is a really great brand. I'm not a doctor, so I can't prescribe any of that, but I'm just sharing what I personally do. And then, um, I have been given by a doctor's. Uh, kind of spoken into my life a little bit about mold exposure.

She gave me access to a really, uh, stronger prescription for when I'm like going to a hotel room or something and there's massive mold and I, um, sometimes can break out in a full body rash if I'm exposed to really, really heavy mold. And hotels are. They're the sweet spot for that. So, um, I'll have that in my back pocket.

And I hate taking it because I always feel so, like, hungover for days afterwards. Like I, my brain is so foggy, all, so I do get all the side effects, but that is like, that's the spectrum that I just gave you for myself. Right? Like, I'll start small, I'll start with water. Cause that's the biggest thing you can do for allergic reactions right away, is to drink a lot of water.

And then I'll bump up to, okay. Maybe nettles and then and vitamin C, and then maybe the histamine blocker. And then if it keeps going, I'm like, okay, if there's, it's been days and I'm not sleeping and all this, then I'll go to something like that medication. Um, and that's, that's my own value system of how I work through supports.

And I know that plan, like I know what my options are before it comes, and I think that's what's so helpful. To, uh, empower me so that I'm not like, oh my gosh, I need to go to the emergency room cuz I can't breathe, you know? Um, it's, oh no, I just need to walk through my plan. And then of course, if I walk through that plan and I'm still unable to breathe, then in fact it's, it's escalating then that is absolutely the time to go to the emergency room.

Um, um, But if you're able to see a deescalation, if you're able to feel calmer, if you're able to manage it, then you can slowly bring it down with each hour and each day. And that's what we wanna be able to do as, as sensitives, is understand our body well enough to be able to manage it in normal, normal, quote unquote crisises and save the true emergencies.

Um, or save emergency support for true emergencies. Right? And by true emergency, I just mean something that is literally out of your control. Like a broken bone, right? Or like a heart attack, you know? And that's something too, like I was absolutely considering the possibility after it'd been like a week of like, Hmm, maybe I'm having a little bit of, maybe this is a cardiovascular issue, you know?

And a lot of the symptoms could align with that. And so I was definitely considering that possibility. It was on my radar, you know, of like, okay, if this continues to this point, I'm definitely gonna go in, get a checkup, get a scan, make sure everything's okay. Um, so it is important to know. The full extent of your plan, not just like, I'm only doing natural, you know, or I'm only whatever.

Like that's the only plan I have. Like even when it comes to that, that point of maybe going to emergency services, like know what your options are there too, like what would a doctor do in this situation? It's really actually not that hard to figure out. Because they're only trained in a couple ways. Typ typically, unless they're a specialist, that's a totally different thing.

But like here, like this is the type of medication you're gonna receive. Like you can just do a Google search. It's not that hard to find out like, okay, with this kind of situation, if you ha, if you are put into this box, Because that's what they're gonna do. They're gonna hear your symptoms, put you in a box.

If you're in this box, then we're gonna give you this treatment, you know, and you, and then maybe two other alternatives. And so if you understand like what those are gonna be, then it can be like an, okay, well I know that those aren't actually gonna work for my body, or that's not the route I wanna go. Or whatever reason you can choose to say yay or nay.

Um, So I am a big, big proponent of thinking ahead of planning ahead. And of course there's gonna be moments where things come out of the blue and you have an unexpected healing reaction, something you've never encountered. And that's gonna be hard and that's gonna be challenging. But again, if you, even if you haven't experienced that situation, there may be tools from other.

Healing crises that can come in and help. Uh, so it's all about building a toolbox. It's all about knowing your own method, your own way of supporting your body. And the best way to do that is to educate yourself. And education is simply often a reminder of how does my body respond to situations? Do I have a tendency?

And I would say, you know, if you have. For those of you that are listening that maybe have, uh, labels like Lyme or some sort of autoimmune condition, uh, like Hashimotos or something like that, you may have expressions that are unexpected, um, that come out. Depending on, you know, if you're in a healing protocol or you are, um, being exposed to something new.

So there is, there does need to be so much grace for yourself in this and it can be super helpful to have a partner. In this journey, someone that has been trained in a way to help you with more everyday healing crises, um, that's usually not, uh, your standard doctor. That's usually a doctor that's been trained in, trained in, um,

naturopathy, pathi, nat natural therapy natural. That's usually a doctor that's been trained in more natural methods, um, that are, you know, here for the long term. That will, that will optimize your body, that will help you, um, in the everyday and that won't give you those long-term side effects and that won't, uh, damage you ultimately, uh, for the li your lifetime.

So, Again, all of this is my opinion. I feel like I have to say that every time. Um, this is my experience. I do have faith in, uh, the medical system of America in some ways, uh, for the emergency aspect. I don't have faith in it for anything else. To be totally blunt with you, that's just my personal experience.

Um, I don't think the training is, is adequate enough. Uh, and I do think there are wonderful alternatives, um, who are trained properly for that healing crisis moment before the emergency. So for those of you that are hearing this and feeling like you aren't quite ready to step into that full place of empowerment, For many reasons.

Maybe you just like, I don't really want to be that involved with my body, or, or this is like not my world. That's where a partnership comes in. Like find someone that can navigate this with you. That can be your point, um, your, your point of, of education and, uh, discussion. Uh, but it still should be a partnership.

Right. It shouldn't be a dictatorship. It shouldn't be, um, a god and subject kind of situation. Like you need to be an active role in it. Uh, and that is how you can navigate a sensitive body crisis. There's like so much more I could discuss. Um, but I think the main takeaways again are number one, to slow down.

Take a breath. Even if you have a respiratory issue, then you're frustrated that you can't breathe. Just still slow down your breath. Remove information physically, emotionally, relationally, on your schedule. Get quiet. Start witnessing your thoughts. Start witnessing your body. Even if it's uncomfortable, start if possible, releasing the panic grounding into your body, using breath, using, tapping, using.

There's so many different methods, guys. Um, we've talked about them all throughout this podcast, and they're all over Instagram now, choose your tool. Know what works for, you know what calms you down and bring that in, weave that in. I love my reconnection practice. It's one of my favorites. It's available as an a la carte on my website or it's part of the method.

Um, and then from there, Look at your plan, look at your tools, and even if it's a new healing experience, new healing crisis experience, still look at the tools that you would've used for other expressions, other body tendencies, and would they maybe apply here? And if not, don't be afraid to reach out to a partner that you have, um, within.

The healing space, uh, to find a solution. But start simple. Start simple. It doesn't need to be fancy. You don't need to rush to get an iv. You don't need to of, and when I say iv, I'm talking about like, um, nutrient drips, like a B vitamin IV or a, there's so many like quick solutions that people throw out there, and that's just more information.

So how can you. Soothe the body with less information. So oftentimes, what can you do that's like at home? What can you do that's very simple? Maybe it's even a simple, you know, self-massage or something. But again, minimize. And then select from there very carefully the tools that you're going to use so you're not taking, so don't minimize all your supplements, and then take like 10 to resolve the issue, like minimize the supplements and maybe select like three that you're like, these are gonna help me move through this specific targeted healing crisis.

And I'm going to lean on these three alone. Uh, really, really simplify as much as you can. There's no perfect way to go about this, but that is how I do it. That is how I guide my clients through it. And, uh, I just always have to say this again and again. Less is more. Less is more for us as sensitives when you are feeling that state of panic, overwhelm, anxiety, healing, crisis mode, reduce, reduce, reduce, reduce, and be very intentional and specific about what you do allow in and ideally have that prepared beforehand so that it's really simple and easy as well.

Um, One thing I guess I haven't said is I do encourage my clients to build a quote unquote medicine cabinet. Um, and whether that's online or it's, well, usually both. It's both an online, like a digital and a physical where you have like an actual cabinet that just like you would normally store.

Medications, you know, and maybe you do still store medications, um, but you also store, uh, you know, natural alternative supports, like I was talking about, nettles. That's a really simple one that can help with allergies. Um, maybe you have, uh, a couple homeopathic pellets in there. Maybe you have, um, some flower remedies in there.

Maybe you have certain supplements that are specific for your needs. Uh, you know, there's so many different things you have. Yeah, there's, I could list for a while. Um, different things that just help to calm and soothe the body. So building out, uh, a medical quote unquote, or a healing crisis cabinet, uh, where you have your go-to toolkits for those moments where your body is expressing itself in a, in a, or it's crying out for help is really what it's doing, right?

It's crying out, saying, I'm overwhelmed. Have those stopped? And if you have a family, If you have sensitive kids, if you have a sensitive partner, um, and even if they're not sensitive, you know, you can do the same thing like know what their body tendencies are and then have stock that toolkit so that you have access to it.

It's the same mentality that we know we had as kids of like, oh, have the Tylenol, have the Pepto-Bismol have all these medications that are over the counter, you know, and, and you. Self, self dose. You can do the same thing with natural support. So I hope that you know that and, um, there's so many fun ways to learn about different modalities and different, uh, tools.

Feel free to DM me if you want some startups for homeopathy or nutrition or supplements or things like that. I can direct you towards certain books that are really helpful and educational. Um, or again, my method is gonna keep, I'm gonna be. Continuing to add to that, and that's what I meant by the digital is whether it's my method or another or whatever, it's classes, um, that you're getting trained on different things.

Uh, Build up your digital resources, and maybe it's, it's a meditation or, um, maybe it is like I'm gonna be giving, you know, a, a breakout of how to use a certain supplement or, um, cast oil rub. I love that one. For detoxing and clearing stuff, uh, there's just different, there's different tools that you can have online as well, so just know your resources, know where to go, and have them as your backup and make sure too, that you're not the only one that knows how to use them.

Especially if you have a partner and you have a family, allow your partner to learn with you so that you are not like the sick one and having to self dose. Um, that's can be really, uh, frustrating. Exhausting too. But allow your partner to be empowered too, so that they can serve you as sensitive. We have a hard time receiving.

Right, and I'm speaking to myself on this as well. It's really hard to receive care, um, because we're so particular and we, we usually have a very specific way that we want it done. And it's very rare when someone else can just know that and or even do it. But the more that we communicate our needs to our partners, to our family, the more that they can then love on us the way that we need to be loved, especially in moments of body crisis.

So, Allow them in, teach them, educate them. Don't carry this torch alone and the whole family will be empowered. Yeah. Okay. That was a lot of information about reducing information. Um, I, I hope this was helpful. Uh, if you're new to this podcast and you're new to Natural Health, this was a doozy, I'm sure. Um, but we're here to talk about holistic solutions.

We're here to talk about how to help the body, uh, naturally succeed and naturally heal. With respect for routes that are not natural, but um, understanding when they're needed and when they're not. So, I love you guys and we'll talk in our next episode. Bye.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

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Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi

Episode 35: The Story of Triumphant Recovery From Narcissistic Abuse With Empath Raven Scott

Conversation

Episode 35 Season 3

Are you conscious of the slightest subtleties in others? Are you a lover of quiet downtime? Are you attuned to the details of your environment? Are you most at peace when there is no pressure? And are you deeply affected by nature, music, stories, food, and other forms of art? And have you also been this way for as long as you can?

If yes, then it's quite possible that you are a Natural Sensitive, like me, commonly referred to as a highly sensitive person. A Natural Sensitive is simply someone whose sensitivity is innate, healthy, and a gift to everyone it touches. Welcome to the Naturally Sensitive podcast, a show for the holistically minded, natural sensitive.

Here we talk all things sensitive and natural. My name is Jessi Michel Agadoni, and I am your naturally sensitive health guide and. My purpose in this lifetime is to help you cultivate a beautiful, rich life void of constant overwhelm, anxiety, depression, autoimmunity, or any other imbalance that could prevent you from having the impact I believe you are called to have on this world, my functional healthcare practice, me floor wellness, and my unique method teaches Natural Sensitives like you, how to build sustainable health by honoring their natural sensitivity. I created this space as a free resource to share what I've learned through my own life, and also had the honor of witnessing in the lives of my sensitive clients. I do this because I truly believe that if all Natural Sensitives have the support to live as their unique body's request, this world could be a much more beautiful and peaceful place.

So today we will take yet another step towards creating this healing reality together. Let's dive in.

Jessi: Hello, my sensitive friends and welcome back to It's so good to have you here. I have an incredible guest for you today. She is really an expert on the art of navigating life as an empath, and she has incredible experience with recovering and healing from a narcissistic relationship and all that comes with that.

She's an author, she's a speaker, she's a spiritual mentor, and she's someone that I'm really excited to bring on this podcast to talk about narcissism and, and that paired with empathy, uh, it's not something we've really discussed on this podcast yet, and I know. Especially in the last few years, it's really come forward as a big topic of discussion.

 Uh, we mentioned this a little bit in the conversation, but I, I personally believe that the term of narcissism has been used a little bit too broadly, and I've seen it happen time and time again where we just think anyone that was. You know, not who we wanted them to be. We just are labeling them as a narcissist.

 And there is a clinical definition for it that I think should be honored. And there's also the process of healing and, you know, coming through and realizing whether someone really is a narcissist or if there's perhaps just some emotional stunting or just an overall inability to meet you at your depth, um, or your.

Journey. So I am really excited to have Raven Scott on to discuss all of these topics and more her and I get in and really discuss some of the nitty gritty of what it's like to not only be an empaths. And to have experience with, you know, those that are either egotistical and or have the diagnosis or the clinical expression of narcissism.

And then even navigating relationships and codependency, we get into so much goodness here. So this is, I. A very rich podcast episode. I highly recommend taking notes. If you're that type of person or even listening back a few times, um, you'll really, really appreciate what Raven has to say. She has walked through the fire herself, a fellow six two in human design.

She had to send her first 30 ish years, uh, really going through the gamut like me, and now she is really stepping into the roof, onto the roof and sharing her objective and beautiful wise perspective. So I hope that you enjoy this as much as I did. Let's step in and get talking with Raven.

 Raven. It is so good to have you on the podcast. I am honestly, have been thinking about this conversation all week, so I'm really excited

Raven: to get rolling. Thank you for having me. It's so good to be

Jessi: here. Ugh. And we just discovered that we're both actually in California. I realized you were just up the road for me, so I love that.

I feel like we're on the same plane right now. The same sun is shining

Raven: on us. It is, it is. It's so nice. It's a bit dry and windy here. Up a little bit more north, but It's been so wet. Which we need the wet uhhuh, but it, it's like I'm looking at my yard.

We need to dry out and then have rain again dry out. Like stop just down pouring all this water on

Jessi: us. I know as poor Californians, we suffer. Our weather is, you know,

Raven: and we're not complaining, so I'm

Jessi: not gonna say no, we're not complaining, we're just being particular.

Raven: Yes. Just feeling the energies of what needs to happen. Yeah,

Jessi: exactly. Oh, Raven, so I have so many wonderful questions for you. You are such a woman of wisdom, and I wanna really glean from you what we can in this time.

So right off the bat, I want to have you kind of defined for us, since you are an expert in this area, both experientially and now even helping others, how do you define an empath and how do you define a

Raven: narcissist? Hmm. I love that question. Because everyone always just asks about the narcissists, but I think it's important to ask about the empath.

Mm-hmm. I think the, the empath, as you shared on my podcast, is highly sensitive people. And I think we all are empaths. I think we're all born empaths. And the empath is like a connection to our soul. Like it's a connection to the energies and to divine. And there can be an unhealthy balance of empathy just as there can be an unhealthy balance of ego.

And this is so funny that this is coming up and you asked me because, uh, yesterday I recorded an episode for a few weeks out for my podcast about narcissist and echo and Mm. Um, my podcast is called Empath and the Narcissist. So I was like, this is like the main theme of everything, right? So yeah, the empath is that who is highly sensitive, but if they're caught in this unhealthy.

Part of their empathy where they're absorbing everything. They're absorbing everyone's pain. They're trying to fix everything. They're, they're ignoring their trauma and not healing and transmuting it. Right? All the, things we all have to work on as humans. Right. I think that's why we're all empaths.

Then you, start to lose yourself, and that's exactly what happens when you're in a relationship with a narcissist, because a narcissist is the opposite. In a sense, they're also empaths right? They're also born empaths but their life path went a different direction. Maybe they weren't conditioned to be as caring and empathic to others.

Maybe they weren't even taught to be nice to others. This is all about just survival, almost like throwing them out to the wolves. Like there are some people who experience life like that and that can turn out to be the path where they take that over ego and a narcissist by definition, and N P D diagnosed is.

Overly exaggerated sense of self than ego, uh, grandiose mindset. They lack empathy for others. And they only, you look caveat, they only turn on the empathy when they want something. So it's a, it's a transactional exchange. It's not a true empathic, I care about you. I feel your soul. I see you, I want you to be happy.

And well, like an empath would do. They're like, oh, I need this, so let me turn on my empathy talent here. Mm-hmm. Because we all develop that. Mm-hmm. And they use it for their own selfish receiving. Yeah. So it's so good. Yeah. It's interesting. And I love that myth about narcissist and echo, about how, do you want me to kind of go into that?

Yeah, go into that a little bit. The narc, the term narcissist came from narcissist, uh, ancient Greek myth. And he was obsessed with himself and he was obsessed with his reflection. And he actually wasted away and died because he couldn't remove himself from looking at his reflection in the water. He couldn't even drink the water because he didn't wanna disturb the image.

Interesting. So it's like this interesting symbolism of just focusing solely on the self and like the outward appearance. Right. Versus really focusing on the inwardness. And which is also interesting parallel between the victim of a narcissist is that you're kind of doing the same thing. You're focusing on finding love outside yourself.

Mm-hmm. And the, the narcissist is really good at feeding that to you to kind of create a trauma bond. Mm-hmm. And then you're hooked and then you think that. Their act is really them. And you hold onto that false hope, which is echo. She fell in love with narcissist, and she, uh, just lost herself. She, and then when he died, because he was looking at his reflection and not drinking the water like Canadian, she wasted away as well.

And all that was left was her voice and her cursed her, right? She's called echo her, the goddess, her cursed her so that whatever, she could only say whatever someone said she could only echo. She had no words of herself, which is what happened to the empath who was trying, trying to fix and help and heal someone who doesn't want to be healed.

And just always, just like losing themselves and only echoing. And then especially with the tactics, with the narcissist, they gaslight you, meaning they start to turn. Blame and shame back on you if you try and hold them accountable. Mm-hmm. And it just becomes this spiral of, am I the narcissist? Right.

You're echoing everything that they're projecting onto you. And so this is why I love this myth, and it's really beautiful that I just recorded it yesterday and we're talking about it today on your podcast.

Jessi: That's amazing. I, oh my gosh, there's so much I could, we could talk about just from that. I find like the last thing you just said was really interesting to me about how EMPAs, can kind of echo back that mi and narcissist because the amount of times I've had my clients that are sensitive say, am I a narcissist?

I've had so many people tell me I'm selfish. Am I, am I, and I'm like, the very fact that you're asking. It shows that you're not, because a true clinical narcissist wouldn't even ask that question. No. In fact, they, they'd be so horrified by that question. They wouldn't even go there. You know? So it's, they would

Raven: blow up in your fascinating

Jessi: face.

Yeah, that too. They blow up in your face.

Raven: How dare you. They would gaslight you and you'd be like, I can't believe I'm dealing with this. B, you know, BS. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. You can't believe you've been saying this, blah, blah. You're the narc. You're always doing this. And they would find all these false evidences that they actually happen, but it, they're twisting that evidence in a, in a light where they're setting you up to think that you're a narcissist.

Yeah. So many projection, projection, projection. Oh

Jessi: yeah. So good. So maybe for empass that are listening, if you find yourself wondering if you're a narcissist based off someone else's, uh, labeling of you. Make sure that that relationship isn't co-dependent and that you're not in a relationship with a narcissist, because that could be what's actually going on.

Raven: Easier said than done for sure.

Jessi: One other thing that I find really interesting, cuz I've really, you know, on your, we had, for those listening, I got to go on Raven Show and it was so special. We had a great conversation. So I highly recommend you listen to that too. Um, but I shared that, you know, I have, uh, well actually a couple people in my life, but one, you know, in my immediate life that, um, others have labeled as a narcissist.

And I told you like I, I've come to the place now where I choose not to label them if they don't receive the label. So, but you know, there was that dynamic in our relationship and, uh, it's, it's so tricky.

Raven: It is. And to navigate the ego can do that too. Mm-hmm. You don't have to be a narcissist to. You know, shove off and skirt responsibility for your bad actions.

You can just be, I think we had, were joking, can I say cuss words in your Oh,

Jessi: 100%. Okay.

Raven: So we were joking, uh, in my podcast that, you know, like, why don't we just call 'em assholes? Like, my husband was like, you know, and back in the day we just call them assholes. Like they were not narcissists. This is like a new term and everyone's offended.

Like, you know, you could call someone an ask asshole, you're like, ah, whatever. Yeah, I am. But a narcissist. Everyone was super offended. I, I even was processing and made a mistake of calling out my parents as narcissistic. Mm-hmm. Actually, I called them actual narcissist. And this is, that was the 2022 phase of everyone calling.

Yes.

Jessi: Everyone a narcist, everyone a narcissist. Yeah, everyone's a narcissist

Raven: because we're trying to figure it out. We're trying to like process it and put the label on to help the healing. Um, but at that's part, just like anger is part of the process of healing, so is labeling and then as you become wiser and you really.

Process and analyze it, you're like, Hmm. I just think that they have limited emotional tools when, which definitely narcissists have too, but you know, it's just, you don't have to call everyone a narcissist. You can just say, wow. They really have limited tools. And I, I feel for them. I'm sorry. And actually, um, oh, I can't remember his name, so I was just listening.

I love The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday, and he was talking about, um, Marcus Aurelius. Mm-hmm. Pretty much journaling about how he was surrounded by idiots, you know, and he's always like being very meditative and very wise. And his grandfather wrote, uh, well adopt grandfather wrote an art, uh, uh, meditation about, it sounded very Buddhist to me too.

It was, you know, you just feel sorry for them that they don't have the tools. Mm-hmm. You know, you don't write them off, especially if you're a leader or. You know, have some type of, um, connection with them. Let's say they're your, they're your employees, or Hmm. You're coaching them or whatever it is. You don't write them off.

You just hold space and understand and feel sorry that they don't want to embrace the tools that are readily available to them. Yeah. They're so focused on their pain and trauma. Mm-hmm. They shove it away and they shove it away and they blame and they project and it's really all they're doing. They're just being a little toddler about dealing with their emotions and their trauma.

Yeah, absolutely.

Jessi: I've always thought about it. Not always. That's not true. Recently, in the last few years of just a lot of. Like you said, I, we talk about this a lot on the podcast, in that healing journey, like you go from one extreme to the other, right? In order to, especially if you are codependent, empathic, sensitive, you kind of have to go the other extreme just to get out of these relationships.

And you do, and you get, you experience the anger and the frustration and yes, you do tend to like over label perhaps and, and really get, you know, uh, intense about things. And that's, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just you have to remember that, that you're still in process. Like that's not the end game.

The end game is to swing the pendulum back and back, back and forth until you reach that middle of balance to where there is understanding for everyone in all of their journey. And I know for me and my parents, like I've come to realize that every generation goes a little bit further. Every generation has their healing length and they do have a stopping point.

You know, I'm gonna have a stopping point. And if I have children, they'll look at me and be like, why couldn't you go further? I'm like, dude, do you know how far I came from? Like, this is huge for

Raven: me. And when I'm, and that's the job of the next generation, is to criticize Yes. The others. So that exactly continues to evolve.

Yeah. And that's,

Jessi: that's just progress period. That's humanity. And I think it's hard. I can put myself as an empath in my parent's shoes and understand how that would be painful, because it is, it is critique, it is judgment. And for them to feel like I, this is the farthest I can go. How, how dare you ask me to go further?

You have no idea what I've been through. You know? But at the same time, like there needs to be that maturity of understanding that my child is meant to go further. And that's actually a blessing, you know? Yeah. Uh, so there is, there's a lot of like, Messiness that can occur in those relationships. You can.

That's, that's the hardest, the parent child is the toughest

Raven: for sure. I've personally had to come to that growth mindset. Mm-hmm. And just settling on, I'm a Virgo, I'm very perfectionist and I had a really beautiful, painful, yet beautiful conversation with my mother. And it was this, it was just this aha moment, like Every time I speak about trying to improve, I'm not asking her to improve, to be perfect, I'm just telling her what I need. Which is beyond her emotional tools that she's capable, which I think a lot of us can relate to in our generation. And I just realized, you know, I have to accept what is, I can't keep pushing her because when I'm pushing her and sharing with her what I need, I'm actually pushing her away.

because every single time I'm triggering her fears, I'm triggering her own self. Doubts, you know, which can turn into a reaction that a narcissist would do, like the ego defense. So I get how people so easily can label others a out of their reaction and their ego narcissist. Mm-hmm. It's very similar, but it's not true N P d unless it's turned against and it's hurting you and it's being abusive.

And I think also the term, like she's abusing me is highly overused as well last year. Like really taking responsibility and tuning in. Tuning into the tools. Tuning into what you, maybe what you're doing. Are you pushing the buttons all the time, you know? Mm-hmm. Take a step, take a step back and accept what is, and that was my biggest aha moment, thankfully.

Well, towards the end of the year. It took a while, but yeah.

Jessi: Yeah. Comes down to that. We all desire to control. And we just choose to use different tools as empass. We, we also can manipulate because we know exactly what everyone needs because that's our gifting. And so I, I really think like, no one really likes to hear this, but we're all manipulators at some level.

And so it's becoming aware of that and being honest with yourself and saying like, okay. and it's not always from a place of like, I wanna control them like, like a conscious, it's often the subconscious, right? Where you're just trying to protect yourself. You're scared. This is the safest way. It's also how you've been trained to be safe,

Raven: right?

Yeah. And then it was like meeting your needs. Mm-hmm. Also, there's this kind of message that, well, you need to speak up. I needed to share what you need to get what you want and mm-hmm. Okay. That's great. But you may be going, oh my gosh, there's another revelation from a guest on my show. Um, um, Her book is Mu is called Mother to Maiden, and I'm trying to remember her name.

Her Instagram is Mary of Magdalene, that's not her name. And she was saying, you keep going to this old rickety shack store. Mm-hmm. Right. To get what you need. You need love, you need compassion, you need time. Maybe. That was my big thing. I wanted more time mm-hmm. In my relationship with my parents. And they were always giving it to my sister and not me.

And I didn't understand it. And she's like, but you keep going to this old Rickey deal shack asking for compassion and time and love and you know, the store owner says it's been outta stock for a really long time. Like it's not here. And and she's like, and sometimes it never was. We never carried it.

Mm-hmm. But who's the crazy one continuing to go to that old Ricky Shack asking for that when it's never been there and it never will be. And that's when you just have to accept that. Find it, that's the key elsewhere, which really is finding it within yourself.

Jessi: Yeah, that's the key right there. Yeah.

Acceptance. Acceptance is like everything.

Raven: It's, oh my gosh. Yeah. It shifts everything.

Jessi: It really does. It really does. And, and it creates peace when it's genuine, you know? Uh, peace within yourself. You can just witness your parents. Then de from a place of healthy detachment, not disconnection, but healthy detachment.

And there's just, and that's also where forgiveness can roll in naturally. You know, unforced and, and you're right, like we do push our parents away, um, with our, you know, I, I know for me, I always joke that I didn't rebel as a child. I rebelled as an adult. Like I'm, I was the good girl. I was the nice girl.

I, you know, did everything my parents wanted. And then I went to college and started, um, uncovering what a healthy family should look like. I studied communications, persuasion, family, relationships, all that. And I was like, oh, hold up. This is not how, right. This is not how my family functions. And I went home and I told my parents, so I said, Hey, this is apparently how you're supposed to run a family.

Like, what happened? And they were not okay with that. And I, I, um, yeah. You know, for me it was very traumatic, the way they reacted. Yeah. But also if I flipped the script, how traumatic for them to be, like, we tried our best and now you're coming back and telling us some professors saying that we like failed.

You know, like,

Raven: yeah. And you know what? I think they probably already have that fear. I remember always my mom always saying like, I know I failed. I know I failed. It's like, Well, she already has that fear, like she's already beaten herself up about it. Yeah. And then to hear your child beat you up about it is like excruciating.

Oh man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. And this happens too, in romantic relationships. You're going to that person for something that you need to provide to yourself. And if you can't self sustain, you know, and find your love, your acceptance without that romantic partner in your life mm-hmm. Then that, I mean, that's part of your journey of recognizing, am I codependent on this person?

Mm-hmm. And my codependent on this relationship. When I finally discovered what codependency was years ago, my therapist said, Have you looked up the word codependent? And I was like, I'm not codependent. You know what you're talking about. How dare you? My ego was like, no, no, no, thank you. No, I dunno what you're talking about.

And I looked it up and I read the book she recommended and I was like, oh, I, I am. And it was only like with this one romantic relationship that I left with the narcissist. And then as the years progressed, I realized I was put appendant in all my relationships because I wasn't ever finding that security and love within myself.

Mm-hmm.

Jessi: Okay. I have to ask this question because this is something I've kind of like mold over in my head and I'd love your your thoughts on it as well. I have this feeling or this belief that empathy can be. I see it as a skill and also an innate gifting where I, the way I define empath, and I'm not saying this is, you know, the definition, but the way I've always defined it is that someone that's an empath is someone that's born where empathy is unconscious.

Like it's just there. You can't not give it, it's just, it just oozes out of you, uh, whether you're aware of it or not, where someone, um, where quote unquote a normal human that maybe isn't born with the gifting of empathy, it's a skillset that they can develop. So like, like you said, a narcissist can technically develop empathy, but they only use the skill when they want something.

Right. So, yeah. What do you think of that, that definition?

Raven: I like that definition. I mean, as I, I'm thinking through all the graphs that I've seen in a human design as you're asking that question. And I, and I see the potentiality for empathy in all the different places. Mm-hmm. And it just depends, you know, like, I've seen a graph that every single center was defined, and I was like, holy mother, DEHA, every single center defined good luck with that one.

Woo. And you know, and, and so you're like, oh, well that person's not empathetic at all. But I think you're right. It's like a human skill. Mm-hmm. To interact. And I think it's to survive, right? Yeah. Because if you aren't at least a little bit empathetic, you're not gonna be liked, people aren't gonna feel warm and fuzzy about you, and then they won't wanna feed you, they won't wanna be friends.

You get kicked out of the tribe, whatever it is. But I think it is definitely a developed survival mechanism. Yeah. But I also feel like world, like if I define empathy as a connection to divine source mm-hmm. Then I guess that means everybody is technically an empath, but what percentage of sensitivity are they?

Mm-hmm. Maybe the sensitivity is the part mm-hmm. Where there's that moving scale. Yeah, I like that. Yeah,

Jessi: it's so, I love playing with language and definitions and you know, so that's why I always like to talk about, okay, what is it like, what is, that, like empath mean to you?

Like, what does that term, because I feel like, especially nowadays, all of these therapeutic terms that we have, people have broadened them or narrowed them, and so it's always important to kind of clarify what, what everyone feels about things like. Yeah. I also just think it's fun to play with them and consider, you know, the meaning behind it, how it applies.

And especially for us as sensitives, you know, we. We are kind of a bit of an odd group. You know, we're, we're the aliens on the planet and so we see things a little differently and uh, I think sometimes that gives us a beautiful outside perspective, uh, but also it can make things a little confusing cuz of how we see it.

So I think our listeners need to hear your story of, Hmm. Kind of how you came into this realm of being kind of a voice for those that are navigating narcissist relationships, that have uncovered, that they're codependent, that they're, you know, they have this, uh, maybe overactive empathy and uh, and how to find health again within that, would you share your story with

Raven: us?

Absolutely. Yeah. I shared a bit of the story of like how I discovered that I was codependent and it was through therapy, so I definitely. To always recommend, you know, having speaking to a professional to kind of get that clarity and then you can do whatever path you want. You know, coaching with somebody, your self-discovery and all that.

But I like, just like you, I was a good girl. I was obedient. I was a straight A student. All the AP classes, I mean, I was smart, but mind you, it was also in a very, um, traditional evangelical Christian private school. So a lot of the curriculum was omitted. So that was my rebellion as I discovered at 18, about evolution.

And actually I was introduced to it by my ex, who ended up being narcissistic. And he definitely was a conditioned narcissist. Like his, he acted just like his dad did. He had mommy issues, like all this stuff. Mm-hmm. But you know, you don't see that on the outside right away because everyone puts on a really beautiful facade.

And so he introduced me to evolution and the stars and astronomy, and I was like, I've been lying to my whole life. And so I just shifted saviors, you know, the, the savior of Christianity was no longer something I could trust, and now I shifted saviors to this narcissist. Mm. And everything he said was I, I trusted because I was so grateful that he shared with me about the real world, you know?

And, um, yeah. So I just fell into that. We were together for 10 years and I kept pushing it. I kept trying to fix him. I kept trying to fix us. I kept pushing it. I kept pleasing him doing all the crazy things that he suggested that I do and I fix, which was always like very weird. Not like go to therapy or read a book.

It was like, um, you should buy some high heels. You should make sure your nails are always done. You should only eat salad. Like all these very controlling superficial vein things. Mm-hmm. Which I received because it admittedly, I was also vain and seeking approval outside of myself in the physical realm versus the spiritual realm.

And I was very spiritual throughout my childhood and high school. I was an awkward chaplain and worship leader that no one wanted to date.

Jessi: And then I, I'm familiar with that. Yes.

Raven: And then I was a total leader. I mean, even in my, uh, school, I mean, um, in my church that, so I had like school, church, and then I had church.

Church. Mm-hmm. And in my church, church I was put in a role with adults like, and I was still in a high school and it was really inappropriate cuz there was like weird chemistry going on with the other leader in the groups and stuff. And, but I was so mature and they're like, oh, who? She can do it. She's the leader.

Give it to her, give it to Raven. Yep. Been there. Yeah. So then I switched and I went completely vain and I was like, I'm gonna look the best and I'm gonna be successful on the outside. Get a career. In incorporate, like right at the right page of 1920, I couldn't even drink. Right. I wasn't technically old enough to be part of all the crowds with, again, all the older adults.

Mm-hmm. But I felt successful. And so all those solutions that were so superficial that the narcissist could control in my life, I myself take responsibility that I accepted those. I was like, yeah, that sounds like the right solution. You'll love me more if I do that. And I just got deeper and deeper in the rabbit hole.

I always call it the dark vortex of his control. And he actually grew deeper and deeper, like darker and darker. And I tried to move out. I would pack a bag, I did it seven times, pack a bag, move out because of a horrible argument cuz I was fed up with his always blaming me and my intuition would kicking and, and say, this is not right.

You should, why are you here? You should go leave. You know? And I had friends that would tell me that the way he was treating me wasn't right. I just couldn't pull myself out because I was so co-dependent and trauma bonded, you know, until my seventh, I think it was my eighth attempt. And I knew after this one argument, I had this aha moment trip.

And I came back and I immediately told him how much fun I had. Like what a joy it was. I was just expressing my emotion and he didn't hear one bit and immediately he just went in on how horrible those people are and da da da dun. They're so this and dirty judgey judgey. Mm-hmm. And I was like, you, I don't even care.

I'm not even talking to, I don't, I'm not trying to sell you on them. I'm just sharing with you how I had a great time. And so I knew right there, I was like, boom, wake up moment. He's never gonna listen or like care about how I feel ever, ever. And I had forced him to move in together, thought that would fix it.

I had, you know, I say forced because I kind of gave him ultimatums, like mm-hmm. I'm leaving. I'm not gonna be with you anymore. If we don't move in. Thought that would fix it. You know, if, and now it's like, get married, thought that would fix it. Thank God I didn't take the next step and be locked in with him for forever.

Mm-hmm. So, yeah, it was, it's been such a healing journey and you can hear in my language, I'm taking responsibility for my part. Mm-hmm. I'm not the victim anymore. Um, but this just is what it is, right? We just get ourselves stuck in this, this vortex and this trap based on what we think is normal, how we were loved, or what the, the narrative was in our head as children, right?

Mm-hmm. The conditioning of, especially in a very strict religion, do this, you know, you're already broken. You were born broken sinner, do this and you'll be saved, do this and that. It's like always very conditional. Mm-hmm. So that kind of narcissistic conditioning was like, oh yeah, that makes sense.

Totally. Like that's it. That's just like, How Jesus was told, told me to do this. Technically not the real. Jesus would be turning over in his grave hearing all the things that they say in church about what he talking about. I always call it

Jessi: Christian culture, is how I come to define it. Cause I'm like, this isn't even what was originally.

Yeah. Christian culture is really culty and powerful and it's

Raven: what, it's, it's amazingly crazy how similar it is to, um, uh, Islam, right? Mm-hmm. Cause it all came from the same region. So it's like just taking a look at the different religious organizations, you're like, ah, it all came from a pure good place.

Right? This, I call him a, um, ascended master. Jesus was an activist and it just kind of was taken by certain people and written and then rewritten and formed into whatever system they wanted. And yeah, I, it just shows that all of us. We're trying to get some agenda. Right. Especially the power. We all have an agenda of what we're trying to get out of life.

Get out of a relationship. I had to sign a lease. Like I had to get something legal Hmm. In place for me to get out because after this big argument, I saw like physically saw this gray mist in my bedroom and I could, I closed my eyes and I could see that dark black vortex.

Like, it was so clear to me. Wow. It's like that was my awakening moment. I was like, I am like spiritually woke now. I don't even know what that means. I just know I see this and I need to get out and yeah. So I, I had to sign a lease to hold myself accountable to stay out.

Jessi: Yeah, that makes sense. And especially as nice girls that follow roles, and it's helpful to have something because that is one benefit of being co-dependent, is that you're very responsible.

So if you, you use that to your benefit of like, I'm gonna be responsible to this person now, so I can't back out. That's, that's brilliant. Yes.

Raven: Yes. Yeah. All the other times didn't work and he ignored me. It's not like he chased me, but I felt lost without him. Yeah. I felt like something was missing in my life and it only took like a day or two and I would reach out and he would, you know, convince me that everything was all right.

If you just do this, we'll be fine. Da da da da da. Yeah. So what was

Jessi: that like separating from him and how long did it take for you to. Uh, I know healing's a journey, but that, that big original kind of wound and connection, how long did it take to fully kind of cut that cord and

Raven: recover? Oh gosh, yeah, probably 10 or nine years.

Uh, and writing my book really helped. After those nine years, I, I did so much that throughout that time I went to therapy, I started a therapeutic like horse business, which was horrible. Like as far as money and body issues, like it totally broke me down, but it was very therapeutic to be in nature and with the horses, um, all of the different things.

I started listening to, um, Dr. Joe Dispenza, Gabby Bernstein, um, Jen Sinero. I just started listening to books cuz then recently thereafter, um, you know, I actually did the horse business with my husband. I met him a few weeks later and it was just such a. Miraculously like connection. It was divine and there was still so much healing.

I had to do that. It was a bumpy road in our relationship. Mm-hmm. Because I was so triggered all the time. I had P T S D and I would just break down and have these crazy just episodes, um, things, you know, watching movies, all smells, sounds, driving through that old neighborhood. It just really set me off.

And so there's, there's all that, that I had to heal from a process. And yeah, it took me down this spiritual path of non-religion, spiritual path of finding ways and modality, somatic healings and meditations and all the things, the visualization, the E f t tapping to heal. Mm-hmm. And then I, I wrote my book and it seemed to really like open up this door that I could really find peace and forgiveness and healing.

And then now being able to speak about it, you know, having, starting a podcast and I really didn't fully embrace speaking about it until last April. I avoided it. Even though I wrote my book, I was like, oh, I'm just gonna talk about intuition. No. And the universe is like, no, that's not why you're here.

You're supposed to be helping bring back sparkle to those who, who have been hurt by narcissism, which is a lot of us. And even just toxic people and their egos that kind of manifest as narcissistic. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been a journey. Mm-hmm. A really winding journey. But it's also been beautiful.

Jessi: Yeah, it sounds like it.

It's, but isn't that the joy though, of having, having gone through something really hard to be able to, on the flip side, give that healing as a gift, you know, and to not have it mean nothing. To not have it. Just be this, well, that happened, now I'm moving forward, I guess, you know, but to actually realize there was purpose in that, you know, because alongside that, I hear you were whether we loved the environment that it happened in.

You were curated as a leader. You were curated as someone that could, you know, present yourself, that could be in front of people, and then you were given this experience, you know, or you could even say you chose that experience, you know? And right as you, as you move through it now, you get to use all those skill sets to then share and to present and to offer it and, uh, to use, like obviously language in words are a gift for you if you are a writer and a speaker, right?

So to be able to process for that amount of time and then to verbalize it, to write it out, is so powerful. And also healing. I, I totally agree with you that. There's one, it's one thing to kind of heal and process in your mind and in the quiet of your life, and it's another level and layer to then go public.

Raven: Yeah. It was a process. I had three different versions of the book. It took me like three years because you know, she told my sister about it and she told my mother, and then my mom called crying like, how could you air our dirty laundry? Huh? I was like, all of her triggers and yeah, it was really hurt and I was like, oh, I guess I won't write it.

And then I just felt this such compulsion to not hold back and to write it. And it's so beautiful how, I mean, I was like, if I just can touch one person with this book Yeah. Then that's, that's the goal. That's it. And I've, I've had so many reach out to me, like while reading it saying, I was reading your book and I felt so empowered.

And one of 'em just the other day said, and then like that same moment, I was served by my acts and you know, it was. There's, it was just, it's almost like, like a net, like it's been a net for people to catch them as they're falling through these really difficult times. So it's really fulfilling and beautiful to hear that feedback and to know Yeah.

That my pain, like you said, is shining bright now like a diamond. Mm-hmm. Helping others.

Jessi: Absolutely. I just got chills.

Raven: My inclination cross is dominion, so it took me a quite a few years to figure out what that meant. I was like, okay, so dominion, that's, uh, Bernie Sanders has dominion and I don't know why I keep going back to that, but there was another, um, classical, um, um, what is it called when you're con um, not a writer.

Composer. Composer, composer. Mm-hmm. But he actually ended up organizing like the library of classical music and Wow. I was like, okay, what do I do with this? What does that mean? You've got a politician, you've got a musician. And then my north nodes in Gemini. And I was like, mm-hmm. What does that mean? You know?

It was like, which is all about words, like you said, like the talent of words. Mm-hmm. And so that's why I fully embraced being an author. I fully embraced being a podcaster, which I never in a cajillion years thought that that's actually career that you can do that. And I, you know, I just, I have my bachelor's in arts, And I did interior design. I felt like you have to tactally do something and Yeah. And even to this day, my mom has like, she doesn't understand what I do. She's like, I don't know how you're doing that, but Okay.

Jessi: I feel like that's so common. Yeah. Yeah. My mom, my, my sweet parents are like, yeah, we don't know our daughter.

We don't even know who she is anymore.

Raven: You know, at the internet and the Asian, of course there's got all these. Different careers that they can't even fathom. Like I don't know what you're doing. Yeah. Which

Jessi: is kind of cool and exciting. Yeah. So wait, so tell us your human design real quick, cuz you've been, uh, referencing

Raven: that.

Yeah. So my type is generator, author is pure, I'm a six two. Mm-hmm. So I've got the role model leader, right. I was born and it's in my graph that I'm a leader. Two is the hermit. So I'm always retreating to write something or plan something. This is funny, I, I always feel guilty about like doing really good at going live, like right to be there for my community.

And then I retreat and I don't, and I'm like, oh, I should go live. No, I don't feel like it. I'm just gonna hermit, I'm just gonna work on my book. I'm just gonna do this. And, but that's, that's it. That's part of my design is preparing and mastering what I can bring to them when I come. So yeah, I can

Jessi: fully relate to that.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Fellow six two and. Interesting. And I'm like envisioning your chart. What are your defined

Raven: centers? all except for the root solar plexus and Will. Okay. Yeah.

Jessi: Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So you're really sensitive to

Raven: Pressure sets me up since of, they really sets me up for being scammed, which narc you.

Well you've got the

Jessi: pressure that's Sure. You've got that open identity urgency. Oh, open ego.

Raven: yeah, the. Open ego. I love to always reference the ego as the will. Like Mm. Anyone can sell me something, someone can sell me ice. But I have a whole thing of ice. Cause I feel like I need to like buy ice from you.

Oh, you're right. I need it. Their agenda. Horrible. Oh my gosh. Horrible.

Jessi: Yeah. Yeah. And of course the open solar plexus, you're very open solar plexus sensitive

Raven: to emotions. Yeah, I am. And I was always labeled the one who exploded. Like I had the temper tantrums as a child because I was amplifying, like let's say we were all getting frustrated playing something when I was seven.

Mm-hmm. Or whatever conflict or you know, I don't, you don't remember what happens when you're seven. Exactly. But I just remember being in a circle with my friends and then everyone on the block would hear the upset and it was from me. And then I would get sent to my room cuz that's not appropriate.

Mm-hmm. And I, I didn't really know how to manage that. I was just amplifying, yeah. The frustration with my voice. Which is defined.

Jessi: Yeah. And being, uh, you know, a natural or a highly sensitive person, plus having an open solar plexus that's like really intense. Yeah. Because yeah, you're, you just are picking up on everyone's emotions and then where do you put that if you don't know how to, as kids, we don't have boundaries.

We don't know how to manage that. We don't know, you know, the separation we see ourselves all merged. Right. And that's beautiful, but also really hard at the same time.

Raven: Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I think my open root had that. Hmm. The whatever it was part of the recipe of that too. Right. Yeah. I sure to like figure out the solution.

Right. I see it

Jessi: in you too, cuz I have an open route as well, and I have like a ton of defined gates. It's really interesting. I have a ton of defined gates in my open route, but it's open at the same time. Mm-hmm. So I really think it highlights and enhances the pressure. Um, but I, I hear in you a lot of similarities of my own journey of just like rising to leadership, always being treated as an adult even when you shouldn't have been.

And feeling the pressure of everyone being like, oh, we know that if you just give it attention, you'll be good at this. So can you just take this over please. But we don't have the, the ability to sustain that, you know, so we would burn out and all that. At least you had a sacral goodness. Yeah.

Raven: I'm jealous of that.

I, I know burnout takes a little longer for me with my say, but I was talking but silly to my, my, um, social media manager who's helping. All the stuff, even beyond social media. And he's like, you need to post once a day, not twice a day or three times a day, because you're gonna burn out. And he's a projector.

So I'm like, anything you say, I will take it. I will listen and probably take your advice. Yeah.

Jessi: Good,

Raven: good. That's funny. Yeah. Yeah. It just is. Oh, I just, it's always something I've had. I'm still, every day I, meditation I swear, is what really has helped me with my open route because I'm able to just calm down and breathe and be like, it's not all gonna get done.

Hmm. And it's like that pressure to get that task done also. And I have children, so as I'm doing a task, especially editing a podcast, they're asking for food in this. Mm-hmm. And it's been a real exercise to just breathe. And like put the mouse down and go get the snack. Like it's gonna be here when you come back.

Like that open route really sucks sometimes. Yeah, I

Jessi: hear that. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, I think, have you gotten into Jean Keys? I feel like you probably have a little bit.

Raven: I haven't Jean Case. No, I ha I mean I know Jean Case. Yeah. But I haven't dived deep into the Jean Case. Oh,

Jessi: I wanna encourage you to do it.

You'll probably get obsessed with it. Um, I found what's really helpful with understanding my gates right, is that's what Jean Keith really is about, is the different, um, the different lines. So I find it, well, not just alliance, but the gates and the lines, but when I was looking at my open route, really understanding the different gates in there and what they stood for, not just from a human design perspective, but from a gene Keith's perspective.

It really helped me to kind of deepen my understanding of, wow, this is, you know, my world as health. So this is so huge. This is how, this is how I'm ruining my body. Maybe ruining is a strong word. This is how I am, you know, running myself into the ground day after day after day. Like, it's here. This is where it is.

Yeah. Um, and so really, It's so important to honor, you know, the need for rest. And I know even just this week I, my husband's gone on a trip and I've actually let myself sleep in really late. I've just been kind of what I would have termed moving laly before. I'm now like, no, I'm just kind of cruising. I'm normally not a cruiser.

I'm kind of an intense person. So it's like just it's, but it's been from a place of reflection of like, what happens if I just like rest more? What happens if I just, it's not even that I'm not doing things or I'm not moving, but I'm doing it from a place of rest and a lack of rush, like as if I have.

Like so much time. I have more time than I need to get these tasks done. The manner in which I do them is so different and it feels, I almost feel foreign. Like it's this weird sensation where I, I can sense part of me that's like, haha, speed it up, you know? Come on, do more. You didn't do enough. And then this other side that's like an experimental, this is interesting.

I feel really good. I wonder what would happen if I kept doing this. Would everything fall down? Would things not work out? Would money dry up? Would whatever, you know, all the, the primal fears that roll in and everything I've been learning about Jin Keys and human design when it comes to the root is that it just, it's turned into this kind of mantra statement of the more I rest, the healthier I become and the more like abundant my life is.

And it's like this right now, it's a theory that I'm playing with. And it'll eventually turn into a belief and then eventually into a reality. Right. But yeah, it's tough when you have that open route to really lean into that. Some people just, they're like, yeah, just take a nap. I'm like, you don't understand it.

Raven: It's so hard for me. Mine is racing. How can I take a nap? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it reminds me of, I dunno if you've seen the Hamilton play, but it's like him writing profusely in Hamilton. Mm-hmm. All of those, bills for mm-hmm. The Constitution. He wrote like, I don't know, did he write 50 or plus he wrote like 80% of them.

Amazing. Like he must have had it open

Jessi: roots. Yeah. Going for it, driver. Yeah.

Raven: So sometimes if I do feel like I need to get something done, that also encourages me. Like I'm doing it with a purpose. I'm not just like burning myself out. So there's that positive and negative to it. Yeah. Ugh.

Jessi: So kind of getting back to empathy, what are some of the giftings like, let's talk about the positives that you've really started to nurture and honor and own now that you've kind of come out of being like, oh no, I'm codependent.

I'm an empass. It almost like a negative thing, and then healing and releasing and coming into a place of more balance of like, this is actually a gift. Like what does that look like for you being in that state?

Raven: Yeah, and honestly, this didn't really open up for me until I saw my chart and I knew exactly where my open doors were and exactly where my quote unquote, Weaknesses or failures.

Right. Every time I was sold into to sell something in an mlm, I always felt like a failure cause I couldn't sell it. I was like, oh, actually it's okay. That's my open listener. And I just had the back door swung wide open and they just can't came on in. And I was like, yeah, sure. Come on, I'll do that for you over, you knows, now I, I can still shine my light with the screen door closed.

Mm-hmm. Or if I need to lock it, you know, close that door and lock it because I'm dealing with a narcissist. Like lock it, lock it. Who cares what they think, who cares what their reaction is. Pretty much the epiphany of don't give a shit was how I got over my unhealthy empathy. Mm. To be able to apply my empathy to those who really needed it.

Right. Especially like my children and my husband, myself. Right. My self compassion and then I have the capacity. To help others who are reaching out to me in my coaching sessions. You know, those who I read for. Um, but yeah, the, the boundaries, it's such a cliche. 2022 was huge talking about boundaries, but let's call it not a boundary, but the screen door or the back door closing that.

Mm-hmm. And those specific particular areas as an empath is key to be able to shine your light out. You can't shine it if it's like just dimming. Dimming, because everyone's taking that energy. Yeah. You finally

Jessi: have a full bucket to

Raven: give. Yeah. And it has to be for the right people. And you can't, like, if there are people, here's my, also my biggest lesson is an empath.

If there are people constantly needing you and you get a little bit of a boost, like, oh, they need me and I can help them. That is another part of your ego tapping into the unhealthy empathy and you step into these roles. They're not meant for you. You can be kind and hold space and say, I am here for you as a friend, but I can't, I, I'm really busy with my family, my work, I can't field calls from you every single day or every single weekend.

Mm-hmm. And if you do need help from that, like find a number they can call, maybe they need a hotline, maybe they need a therapist. Like just refer them to someone who can aptly hold that role for them. I think as empaths we take on all these roles that aren't ours, thinking that we can do it, cuz you probably can.

But at what cost? I know what cost. And usually when I do that, the cost is my energy. Mm-hmm. My anxiety, like the, the, if they call and my stomach drops, like, you know that you've overextended your empathy when your stomach drops or you feel, um, obligated. To talk to them. Mm-hmm. You've, your roles have been meshed and the boundaries have been crossed, and that's been overstepped.

So, yeah. Um, just tuning into holding those boundaries and, and usually I'll, I'll lose them as a friend because I've presented to something them, like, I'm here for you. I'm gonna do this for you. And then I do it for a while, and then I'm like, oh, I can't do it now. Like, this is too much. And then they're like, well, this was my expectation of you, and since now you're not doing it.

You're a bad person and I'm not gonna talk to you anymore. And then I lose them totally as a friend and they actually feel like they're losing me as a friend because I'm putting boundaries up, but they're just all or nothing kind of a situation. And it's really toxic, and I think it's gonna, yeah. It's gonna be an interesting observation throughout this year, that being the main theme is like, how do we interact in our relationships and what roles are we taking on?

Mm.

Jessi: So good. Yes. There's so many gold nuggets and everything you just said. I'm like sitting back, you're going, amen.

Raven: You write a whole book on bridge.

Jessi: Ah. And I think that's like, gosh, even when I've been, I've now been going on podcasts and a lot of the questions I've been getting are about like, how do you create that inner circle?

How do you hold that? How do you, because as sensitive souls, like our deepest desire is to love on people, is to care for people, is to, to, and even deeper than that is to save people from experiencing the pain we've experienced. Right. That's really the core. And uh, I know for myself, that's,

Raven: but that's not our job.

That's not our job. Our souls all pick some type of struggle. Mm. Mm-hmm. And it's, it's their struggle. It's their, you could say it's their problem, but it's really their struggle. They chose Yes. You can't save them from their struggle. And

Jessi: that's the perspective that is new to me that I've taken on last year of just like, okay, what is free will truly, and I now, I'm like, I think this started before we even came onto this planet.

And if that's true, we chose our parents, we chose our life. Like that is a part of the journey. And whether it's conscious, are unconscious, trying to rescue is actually like the worst thing you could possibly do. Like you're trauma

Raven: and it's a sabotaging response. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You're sabotaging. Yeah. It's, it is actually a trauma response.

It's unconscious. Yeah. And so again, going back to mindfulness awareness, meditation will help you see your patterns. You'll be like, Ooh, I'm sa, I'm trying to say it again. It's okay to be kind. It's okay to not give up hope on them, but step into a role that shouldn't be yours. That's the biggest thing, right?

You're not a therapist. Have you gone, you know, have you gone through like I was, so I'm really wise, but have I gone through an actually professional therapist? No. So therefore this is, you need to speak to a therapist. You can't call me every weekend, every day if you have a problem. Mm-hmm. That's not my job.

And I think the beauty

Jessi: of using a therapist, using a psychiatrist is money. I find that money is actually a really beautiful boundary, and I've even, even from a business perspective, I really started to use that very strongly, um, which has been a big journey for me. Um, but as sensitive as Empass, we tend to really live in that nonprofit world.

Like that mindset. I call it the nonprofit mindset, where it's like, whether you're running a business or not, you act like a nonprofit where you're like, anyone that needs help, anyone that's vulnerable, anyone that's hurting, I can't, this is really what it's, I can't bear to watch you be hurt because then it hurts me because I.

Leaning too much. I'm merging with you, so I'm in pain, so I need to solve your pain so that we're both out of pain. Right. That's really what it is. Totally, totally. But, uh, there's just this, you know, I'm free. Like, oh, well if I'm not physically doing something right now, if I don't have something on my calendar blocked out, then I guess I'm available.

Right? But when you have someone that's a professional and you have to pay to see them, like that person is gonna really consider, do I actually want to utilize this time? But if you're free, it's just, there's this lack of. Inhibition. Like someone will just kind of use up your time with no awareness.

Mm-hmm. And no, and I, I wanna say that it's half the time it's unconscious. They don't, they're not thinking about it. But when there's money involved, they, because most people that's a high value, they will, it's like this, all of a sudden it's in their awareness of like, oh, I'm using this much time to talk about this issue.

When money's not there, they're not thinking about that. They're just vomiting on you. Right, totally. So it's helpful to redirect them to someone that will bring that to their awareness, um, with the tool of money.

Raven: And there are social workers who, depending on they have a scale system. I was very lucky.

That's true. The therapist I found, she was a social worker and she only charged me $20 a session because I had the horse business and I was broke because they were all eating hay and I was eating hot dogs and they ate better than me, but I still am. Invest of the time. It was the parameters. Like, okay, I'm giving her like, that's a lot of money for me right now.

Mm-hmm. And plus, I know I only have an hour with her, so I was getting this beautiful visual as you were talking about that, that when someone's paying, it's like the therapist, social worker is reaching outta hand and pulling them up a step. Mm-hmm. Versus that free exchange's actually keeping that person in that like little cyclone whirlpool stuck down here because why would they ever get out?

It feels really good to complain about. It feels really good to talk about it. Yeah. It gives them that dopamine that they're being heard, but that's very good. Now they've grabbed you down into the spiral cyclone and now you're both drowning. Yep.

Jessi: Oh, that's such a good imagery. I love that. I love that.

It's so true. And to go to your point too, it's like. It's not about how much money, it's just, it could be a dollar. You know, like, it's just, it's literally that using money to be that awareness factor. And I use that in my health business as well. And, um, it's, it's not about the quantity, it's about the fact that it's even happening.

It's an energy exchange and there's something really powerful about saying this is like, I am worthy of this 25 cents, whatever it is, you know, it doesn't have to be a ton of money, but I am worthy of this. And also, oh, I, you know, this is, I'm gonna be conscious of this time now and be conscious of this person because this is something that needs to be done in this kind of setting where I do have to contribute.

Yeah. You

Raven: know, I love that. And one other thought on the free thing, Hmm. Is nothing's ever free, especially for you who is the giver? You're actually paying out your energy and God, that's like way more valuable than money. Like your, your energy's getting sucked and you. If you're not available for, let's say you're on the phone with this person who's draining you or, or you're in a relationship with someone who's constantly draining you, waking up in the middle of the night like horrible narcissists do and like creating conflict, you then don't have the capacity to be your highest self for yourself, for your job, especially for your kids.

And they deserve that No matter, no matter what they deserve, that you give them their all. Cuz there's just such a short time, a window for that.

Jessi: Yeah. It's value systems too. Like what, what are your top values? It's if you know that, if you know I'm, you know, these three things are what I'm here for.

Anything outside of that you, you be cautious with. You really evaluate if it's something that you wanna give your time and energy to. Yeah. So, and

Raven: it doesn't make you a bad person. Like I question myself as I'm putting these boundaries up. It doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you a jerk. You can still be kind and send them love and light and actual warm wishes with boundaries.

But I have a job I've gotta work on. I have a husband, like I have a, whatever it is that you prioritizing that's important to you, that always comes first. And if that person is pushing those boundaries, you just with love and light, you know? Yeah. I can't, can't field your calls all the time. Yeah. And

Jessi: I think one other thing that we can talk real quick about too is, um, I've seen a lot of, and I've seen this in my own life, first and foremost, and then with others, is this like, well, if the person isn't a narcissist, if there aren't any red flags, they're like a beautiful soul and a beautiful person.

But I feel that obligation that you were just discussing, I feel like they're using my time not out of meanness. Like they're a, a wonderful person. In fact, I even admire them for some things. Yeah. Even there. It can still not be a match.

Raven: Right? Yeah. And we all have a bit of narcissistic traits in us Mm.

Unconsciously that we're doing. It's called our ego. And if we're being unconscious about it, because we're struggling with something, maybe you're struggling with, uh, or that person struggling with whatever their soul's struggle is, right? Mm-hmm. Like then they want, they wanna seek help. And if you're an easy help, right?

It's like all of us humans will choose the path of lease resistance. Yeah. So if you are the path of lease resistance, they will always call you again. But what, at what cost? And Yeah. They don't have to be narcissist. Mm-hmm. They absolutely just can be someone who need, who is needy. Mm-hmm. And but you need to guide them to the proper person Yeah.

To help them with their neediness.

Jessi: What would that conversation look like? Like how could you give us a little script act? Like if I was there I was, you know, some, some girl you met at some event and you're like, wow, we both really, and we jived right off the bat. You know, we had this great conversation.

We seemed like we were on the same page. Then suddenly I'm kind of saying, Hey Raven, uh, let's get coffee and I wanna get coffee. Like, can we get coffee like once a week? Can we like hang out for like, and then every time we get together it's like a three hour conversation cuz we're deep souls. Right?

Raven: Of course.

They would never give you that disclaimer. It would just be like, wanna grab us some coffee? Yeah. They would never, ever be like, oh, let's do this again and once a week, let's sit here for three hours. That's something that you have to like pick up on the non-verbal. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you won't be even be able to pick it up on the non-verbal.

It just will happen. It'll happen. And then, so here's the lesson is the first time it happens and they're just going on and on. And you start to feel like, okay, I gotta go now. Like I gotta go now. Like I have other things I need to do. And they're just, oh my gosh, and did you da that? And they keep talking, oh my, I'd just love to talk to you.

I wanna talk to you all day long. It's like red flag. Mm-hmm. You know, and that's the conversation where, of course you're, you're a human, you're an empath. You're gonna go on the first coffee. I'm not gonna say don't go on the first coffee. Yeah. Because that might be a beautiful relationship with two mutually healthy people.

You just never know. So that's the one part is like, be open still. But with like the breaks on in first gear, not fifth gear, like us and past, like to do stay in first gear, we're besties in 30 minutes. That's another red flag. Besties in 30 minutes. I mean, you can feel a connection like we do, like we're having fun, we're talking, but I mean, we're both not saying like, oh my gosh, like, let's get together and let's talk for hours.

And oh my gosh, we're besties now. Like there's, there's a fine line between. Respect, professionality. You know, it depends also where you're meeting them. If you're meeting 'em, I guess in a bar it's more casual. Mm-hmm. Um, if you're meeting them, like say for instance on a podcast or at work, there's some professional boundaries there that you just can't cross.

Like, so first step is knowing what your boundaries are. Hmm. Because that way you know what you'll allow to cross and what you want. Um, so the conversation would go, let's say at, at the end, oh my gosh, this was so lovely. I need to go pick up my kids. Just make some excuse up if you don't have to, but you need to get out.

Or if you don't have kids, you're like, oh, I have a deadline and I really need to get some work done. And it was so, it was so really, so nice and lovely meeting with you. I'll call you Right. And then kind of put the ball in your court and then it's okay if you don't call them for a couple weeks. I think that's healthy.

But they will feel like if, again, if they're unhealthy and they're codependent, they will call you and reach out and you can. If you feel your gut drop already, you don't have to feel the call. If you feel brave, go ahead, field the call and say, I'm really busy. I'm so sorry I can't talk. You know, let's try next week.

Um, and if it just kind of perpetuates, then that's when you're gonna have to put up some boundaries and say, you know, it, it's, I've really enjoyed our conversation the other day. I really wish you so much love and light, but I really have to focus right now on my work and my family. And you can leave it at that.

You don't need to get any more specific. They should be able to receive that cue. And if not, you've already spoken to them about where your energies are now. Like really gonna prioritize and if they start to like blow up your text thread, right? That's what ego loves to do is freak out and like send you 10 texts.

Uh, don't reply. Just take your time, walk away. Take a deep breath. I would say go meditate cuz that's gonna give you your soul's message. You need to give them and say, I really wish you well. This is just taking up a lot of my time right now. Or I, I don't know, you could, that sounds harsh, right? The impact you're like, I wouldn't say that.

Um, I would say, you know, this, um, I just really need to focus on Yeah. Blank right now. Mm-hmm. And I'll get back to you when, um, you know, when I'd love to reconnect. And that way it kind of gives you the power. It's got your boundaries. I mean, just think of it as a salesperson outside your door. You close the door, say, thank you so much, I'm not interested.

Close the door. Right? Yeah. So lean, I'm not an interest part in that relationship, is I'm really focusing on this right now. And you close the door with love and light. You're not mad. I mean, of course you'll be a little bit peeved because you feel like you put yourself in that situation, right? You're gonna start blaming yourself, but.

Always, always, if you can with love and light, because then you won't feel bad or guilty that you've put that boundary up. Mm-hmm. You know, and it's, it's their journey and it's their struggle.

Jessi: Yeah. We're not responsible for their reaction. That's the hardest one. No,

Raven: that's the hardest one. Yeah. And that's where that don't give a shit kind of comes in like that helped me because I'd always be like, well, what if they say this?

Or what if they feel this and oh my gosh. Like they're gonna be so devastated. Like they'll probably just move on and find another easy path of least resistance. Honestly, that's a bit of your ego thinking that you're the only one that can save them.

Jessi: Ooh, so good. Yes. Thank you for that reminder. Mm-hmm.

Yep,

Raven: yep, yep. I been reminded multiple times and I can't take credit for that one. My husband's always telling me that he like, you know, you can't save them. You know, that's kind of arrogant of you a thing that you can save them. Yeah. Yeah.

Jessi: Well, Raven, this is so powerful. Thank you for sharing and just opening up.

Are there any resources that you would, uh, send someone that's listening where this is kind of a new idea to them or someone that is progressing through that healing journey, coming out of a narcissist relationship or even just codependency? Are there people? Obviously your book

Raven: is a wonderful resource and reach out to me.

Um, I will share with you the link to where you can sign up to receive my, the audible version of my book for free right now for, I have a limited amount of copies that I'm sharing. Yes. The free copy of my book. That's really gonna get you started because it is how to overcome gaslighting. ed, I weave my story and education about narcissism, about codependency.

And the manipulation. And as well as at the end of each chapter, I have a spiritual exercise I weave in human design and astrology. And at the very last chapter, I have like a human design 1 0 1 chapter. So

Jessi: amazing. Yeah. Oh, it's so many tools.

Raven: So many tools. So that's on Amazon, and if you want to listen to the free copy, um, click the link in the show notes to get that.

Um, yeah, just fill in your email and then I'll send you a personal code through an email. Perfect.

Jessi: Yeah. Okay. I have one last question. I always ask my guest. It's kind of a fun off the wall, but it gives us kind of another angle perspective of who you are. If you were a plant, so a flower, an herb, a tree, which one would capture your essence?

Raven: Oh, I haven't really thought of that, but immediately, I don't even know if it's the right name. You know those purple flowers? I think it's the iris. Mm-hmm. Is

Jessi: that, I just thoughted that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I visualized that when you said the purple flower.

Raven: Mm-hmm. Purple. Oh my gosh. But that's it. That's, mm-hmm.

That's my soul flower.

Jessi: You love that, that, oh,

Raven: that's cool. I could see that. I love that question. Oh, well, I, I definitely consider myself a plant witch. I love plants. You consider

Jessi: yourself a plant.

Raven: A plant witch. A plant. Oh, a plant witch.

Jessi: Like I'm absolutely a plant

Raven: in my next life. Please. Maybe a plant.

Jessi: That'd be a nice life. Much. Yeah. Much more simple, much less complex. Oh, well, thank you so much for sharing, Raven. I appreciate it. And just for the final one, like where can people follow you? Talk to us about your podcast, your social media, how can they connect with you? Yeah.

Raven: My website is Raven scott.show and anywhere you can find me and to connect with me is there.

I love to be on Instagram. My podcast is called Empath and the Narcissist. My handle on Instagram is Raven Scott Show, and I just joined TikTok, so if you wanna find me on TikTok, Raven scott.show over there. Nice. Thanks. Dragging my feet joining TikTok. I feel like an old lady.

Jessi: Oh no, you're, you're gonna be great at it.

I feel like generators are like made for TikTok. That's perfect. Probably. Yes. Yes. Put all your energy there. Yes. Oh, well thank you Raven. It was such an honor to have you on today.

Raven: Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure talking with you.

Jessi: Hey there. Before you go, let me ask you two quick questions. Are you honoring your natural sensitivity with your current choices? Are you feeling like your healthiest, most authentic self and body? If you answered no to one or both of those questions, I highly recommend trying out my method. It'll get you started. Or you're welcome to work with me one-on-one if you need to address Deeper health imbalances. If you loved this episode, please leave us a review or share it with someone you care about. Your support means the world to us and keeps us going. We wish you all the love and care. À votre santé, my friend.

Connect with Raven

• Raven’s Website

• @ravenscottshow on Instagram

• @ravenscott.show on TikTok

• Empath and The Narcissist Podcast

Links Mentioned

• Empath and The Narcissist Book

• Empath and The Narcissist Audio Book

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Natural Sensitive Resources Below:

• Authentic Calm, the podcast

• Mêrfleur Natural Living Recos, for Sensitive-safe products

• Merfleur Library, books to listen to or read

• Merfleur Wellness, to rebuild your calm and resiliency for sustainable health

  • See the Authentic Calm Method for self-care

  • See 1:1 Care for private support from Jessi